to wonder why so many people don't get married before having DCs?

[EveWasFramed]

I promise, this isn't meant to be judgemental!! But, my DH and I grew up in pretty traditional families, where you got married first BEFORE having kids...it was kind of a negative thing to do otherwise.

I wanted to get married before my DCs just because I thought there should be some kind of (legal) committment to make it more difficult for one of us to bugger off if we got fed up...if kind of 'makes' us work things out if we ever run into any problems.

Don't know...thoughts, please? I am curious...

I think Fennel made a good point when she spoke about staying together because you want to not because of some vow you made years back.I'd absolutely hate for dp to just stay with me because of some promise he made years ago,I really would loath it. I love the fact we've lasted so long because we both want to work at it not because we said we would.

I don't need a wedding to make me feel emotionally secure in my relationship.I think it's sad some women don't feel confident enough in their relationship to be able to live without some piece of paper tying their husband in. I'd find that degrading.

Ours is a relationship for life. We've grown up together and gone through far more together to show our commitment than any ceremony could ever prove.

I also strongly believe not all couples should stay together.Dp and I were lucky but not all couples are and some just shouldn't be together,it's not good for them or their children. I've met various married couples over the years who you just think really shouldn't be.

Because of this I think putting such emphasis on marriage for all is wrong,it's making many couples vow to do things they really shouldn't hence the divorce rates. We don't live in Victorian Britain anymore,we don't have to be married,lets celebrate that not question it.

We can't all see into the future especially couples who haven't been together long. To say you're going to be together until death whatever is a little shortsighted imvho. It might work for some but not for all. For some that piece of paper just makes the whole thing a lot more stressful and expensive when the inevitable comes.

I also agree with Fennel's point that commitment to one's mutual children is the important thing, when it comes to co-parenting. My relationship with those children's father is a separate thing.

(And clearly the fact I've not taken up his morose 'you haven't married me yet, you know' grumbles means I have Ishoos, apparently. I tend to call them, you know, principles and politics but you can call them Ishoos if you like .)

A few times, I came close to posting such a question in AIBU, then thought there were more fun ways to piss people off.

I agree with the OP. Not because marriage is a great thing, but because I feel the decision to get married is an important one.

Men tend to do things because they want to at the time, and not because they have thought out the long term implications. They need to take this decision to marry a woman without extra factors pushing them towards "settling down" like an accidental pregnancy.

Before this decision to be together for the long term is taken by both parties, I think it is very courageous and optimistic to make babies.

That view of men "tend to do what they want at the time rather than think of the long term implications" is pretty disparaging.

Even as a feminist with many "issues" about marriage, wifedom, gender relationships etc, I still have a higher opinion of my children's father than that. He is an excellent father and I'm confident that he will be in future whether or not we are together long term. he's perfectly capable of taking the long term view and sticking to his commitments towards the children.

It was not a criticism. It is just that men have evolved differently. They have many strong points but thinking long and hard before they get into bed with a woman is not one of them.

Which is why it helps if they take a minute to decide that they want to spend the rest of their lives with a woman. It is much preferable to finding themselves living with a woman because it is more convenient, then ooops she's pregnant.

Oh come on, men have not evolved differently: we have a culture in which different genders are encouraged to behave differently.

And frankly, I have frequently leapt into bed without much forethought too, despite my entire lack of a Y chromosome. Many of us have.

Oh, many of us have also intended to spend our lives with all sorts of different people at different times. Men and women. Last time I looked at the statistics, Life didn't necessarily mean Life at all.

Why do people still think of marriage as expensive or that it has to be expensive?
It is a contract between two people and helps the woman (especially) if things go wrong as she would have some financial protection.
If you partner dies without a will and you are NOT married, you get sod all.

Regardless of our egalitarian view of the world and how we would like to see men as identical to us, they are indeed different. Men have evolved to scatter their seed and women have evolved to protect the offspring. There are other species where roles are different, but this is how Homo Sapiens has evolved.

This is obviously not how we live now, but there are some innate traits that linger and imho it is a good idea to acknowledge them.

So make a will. Sorted.

I would love to be married to my dp however at the minute saving up for a deposit for our own house tops saving for a wedding.

I would love to be married to my dp however at the minute saving up for a deposit for our own house tops saving for a wedding.

DH and I have just got married last year but we've been together for 8 years now and have 2 children (and now expecting our third).

When we decided to start a family (before we were engaged) we were more excited at the prospect of having children together than getting married. I think that, for some couples, marriage just isn't an issue ! It's as simple as that.

We eventually got engaged but even then we didn't start planning the wedding straight away. We always knew we would get married one day but what is the rush? Also, I know weddings don't have to cost the earth but if I was going to get married I did want to have a big day and do it properly so it would be a day we would remember forever so we waited until we had saved up for it too.

I'm obviously not against marriage as I am married now and, yes, it's a nice feeling - but has it changed anything whatsoever in DH and my relationship together or us as a family? No. We're still the same couple/family we were before August last year!

But if other people want to be traditional and get married first then good for them - it's just that everyone views the importance of marriage differently and people should respect other people's points of views on the subject!

Personally I wouldn't have been willing to look to have children with someone I wasn't married to but equally I wouldn't be prepared to have children with someone who I wasn't prepared to get married to.

I like the fact that my husband and I made a commitment to each other as a couple before we had children. I like that fact that we both decided that we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together and that our relationship is about us as much as it is about our children.

I look at some friends who've married since having children and it does look as if the only reason they did so was because they had children. They don't seem that happy together and I wonder what would have happened if the children hadn't come along unexpectedly (I'm talking about couples with surprise DCs, not planned). Would the relationship have naturally fizzled out? Because thinking of the couples I know in this situation, they certainly give that impression.

I just like the fact that we have made a commitment to each other because we chose to, and not because our children came along and it seemed like the right thing to do (I know not every unmarried couple is in this boat).

We also look forward to our retirement and talk about what we're going to do when the DCs have flown the nest. The main experience of me and my friends is to get married first and then have children - that is definitely how I always wanted to do it, so perhaps it is how you've been raised and what you're used to.

It's not about wanting to leash DH in and ensure he doesn't run off. A piece of paper isn't going to guarantee that. But I admit I do love the fact that he brought up the fact of marriage early in our relationship, and that he planned our engagement and wanted it as much as I did, and that our marriage is about the two of us and a choice we made, as much as it is about our children.

There is also evidence to show that children fare better where the parents are married, and that married relationships do last longer than co-habiting (which is why certain political parties want to incentivise it), but it is un-PC to say so. To be honest, I don't really care what anyone else does, but I do strongly feel that what we have is definitely right for us, and for our children.

CoteDAzur I can see what you mean about men needing to decide.
I also think that 100% of the time If a man has no problem with the concept of staying with a woman for life- he will marry her.
Men are simpler than women in this respect.
That is, if the woman he adores wishes to get wed, he'll do it. I'm afraid if anyone who really wishes to get married keeps getting fobbed off with "I'm not ready, yet" from their partner their partner is stringing them all along.
Of course, if BOTH parties are ambivalent towards marriage the above does not apply.

You can't compare people who had an unplanned child with couples who got together and then planned children if you are looking at the difference marriage makes!

And are you saying that pepole should either refrain from sexual activity before marriage, or have an abortion if not married - or not even try and make a new relationship work in the event of unplanned children?

Cote d'azur - actually I think you are incorrect about the evolutionary role of the male in humans. Because women usually only give birth to one offspring, which is rather helpless at birth, the species has survived and developed because the father stuck around to ensure that his offspring survived and thrived, and no other male came in and turfed his out of the cave. Your theory works in populations which have numerous offspring at a time and which need little parental input.

I quite like not being tied into a contract with my DP, knowing that I'm choosing to be here and if I don't like it I'm free to leave. But then I am a higher earner than him and quite self-sufficient, so don't particularly have financial fears should we split up.

motherinferior -Also I would quite possibly be referred to as a Wife, and that would be quite sickening.

Really, what an odd and sad way to think. I am proud to be my DH's wife, and proud he is my husband. It says a lot to me about how you feel about your DH that you cannot bring yourself to marry him and don't want to be called a wife. So, yes, I definitely think you have issues.

Marriage can be a wonderful thing. I am sorry for those of you who for whatever reason have convinced yourself it's a Bad Thing, or unfeminist, or whatever other objection. It means a huge amount to many people so you cannot say it's meaningless or outdated.

I was with my dd1's father for many years and he refused to marry me (he's now married to someone else!) - he gave all the reasons, it's outdated, pointless,etc, and I convinced myself I felt that way too.

Now I am married, I realise what an incredibly special thing it is to dedicate yourself to another person in a way no other gesture can. Having children with someone is not a lifelong commitment anyway - it doesn't bind you to someone for life as unfortunately my ex partner is out of our lives for good. And any two people can have a child together - it's not always a statement of intent to stay together forever. Marriage always is, even if it doesn't work out that way.

Think someone of you have overthought it - marriage is wonderful and has enriched and deepened our relationship further.Marrying my husband is the most romantic thing we have ever done.

I might be blind, or read the thread to quickly because I'm so eager to have my say so I might have missed posts referring to second families? Or has it not been mentioned? If I am right in thinking it hasn't been mentioned then here goes - I'm not married because my partner has been married before. Its not because he's'once burned twice shy' or anything like that though. Although my partner had been divorced for four years when I met him one of his children took the news of my pregnancy very badly, it was unplanned and happened quickly after we met so there wasn't enough time to pave the way for the child to accept accept the changes in her dad's life, and so we have put the need to move slower before getting hitched. There are other legal and practical implications of being the second partner/wife too which means that situations like mine are perhaps a little more complicated, if ever more common. If life panned out as I intended I would have been married a few years before planning children. All that said we're all very happy thank you very much - and working on the hurt child!

mamasparkle I think you're right about overthinking it- while I definitely think that if both partners are ambivalent about marriage it is no reflection about how they feel about each other, I do think that if One partner really wishes to marry, and the other keeps refusing to do so, the refusee doesn't really wish to be in it for the long-term.

I mean: why not marry your partner if it will make them happier if you're in it for the long-term? Why not if it will make them happy?

I never seen myself being married, let alone having children.

After being with DP for 6 years, we have a 4 year old son and a mortgage. He was unplanned. We are currently trying for DC2 - unfortunately, nearly 18months on - no DC2.
We have recently talked about getting married. Nothing big or fancy, just a trip down to the registry office.

Don't see the need for all the expense that goes along with a 'big' or 'proper' wedding personally. But that's just me.

Whereas, DP's sister decided that she would buy a house with a man, take on his daughter as her own, but they wouldn't have children together til they got married.

He proposed nearly four years later. She then spent a year desperately trying to plan a massive wedding and get it all booked and organised before anyone else had the chance to beat her to the altar (that's a whole other thread). Then they were married for about 3months before they got pregnant. Thats the way 'its supposed to be done'

She now complains about such a large gap between her child and her stepdaughter. When asked why she couldnt have had a child sooner, therefore making the gap smaller - she replies with 'It's a sin' She was all for living in sin with the man etc etc, but she couldn't have a child out of wedlock! Utter rubbish.

She is always making snide comments about our son, and how her child is somehow more important because he was born in wedlock! I try my best to ignore her.

I hate that some people still believe that you MUST be married before you have children, otherwise those children may as well not exist, because somehow they are not important.

I think I'm rambling now....

I think it's nice for people to have dreams of getting married then having a baby, and fair play to you if it works out that way - and you find someone who feels the same - but it doesn't always happen like that for everyone.

"And are you saying that pepole should either refrain from sexual activity before marriage, or have an abortion if not married - or not even try and make a new relationship work in the event of unplanned children?"

No - I'm not saying people should or shouldn't do anything. I'm talking about how it would make me, personally, feel about my own relationship and my confidence in it.

I'm saying that some people who end up getting married because of unplanned children do it for the wrong reasons. For the children, or because it's the 'right thing to do', or because their hand has been forced a little bit. They haven't entered into the union without any other factors influencing the decision.

I feel more confident in our relationship because we chose to get married for marriage's sake - because we wanted to make a commitment to each other, and because we love each other - nothing to do with any extenuating factors; just because of us.

I'd just feel a bit if my DH proposed to me after we had kids, or when I was pregnant. I wouldn't ever feel 100% sure that he wanted to marry me for me, or if it was because of our children / making things right. Getting married first enables both of us to feel absolutely sure that our decision was based on nothing more or less than actually wanting to spend the rest of our lives together.

Me and DH got married 12 weeks after DS1 was born. Both our parents are divorced and remarried, so a traditional family life is not what we had, but would like for our children.

I'd love to renew our views to welcome our children into our family as we wasnt married, DS1 was there but DS2 wasnt even thought about.

renew our Vows

Not Views