In thinking the woman Gordon Brown called a bigot deserved it ?

[SwissCheeseIsHolyCheesus]

Because she was in fact a bigoted, bigotty pants .

that is what I think too Molesworth. so thank you for articulating me. The keyboard behaving itself for the time being. Last post took blimmn ages.

Did Foxy mean that maybe Hitler was a very persuasive and charismatic leader and could do a great whiiping-up-a-frenzy rhetoric? Remember, the german people knew nothing of the concentration camps I think they just thought that the jews were being deported (I hope I'm remembering this right...)

Either way, I think that's what she was saying; he was good at effectively brainwashing en masse. It makes me thankful that old wonk-eye Griffin has all the charisma of a discarded johnnie and he is unable to whip up any feeling in anyone but the dimmest of dimwits.

Thanks - I understand the point better now and think it ties in with my worries about the rush to defend this 'granny'

my ideas too peasontoast. so many who would never openly admit or even know how racist their world view is, are now having their prejudices affirmed. it must feel like a breath of fresh air to them.

I'm afraid cupcakes that if you get enough dimwits together they can vote the BNP in.

True but I think (hope) that there are more level-headed people than dimwits in this country...

Poor Gillian she is really being villified on here, imo what she said was not racist in line with the likes of NG and BNP, probably her wording was not so great but hey nobody is perfect, does not mean she is a BNP supporter get a grip fgs. My Armenian mum would probably have said much stronger stuff (the BNP would probably repatriate her back to Armenia with £50,000 and me too for that matter).

Troll ?

Yeah, I think so for sure. She was just expressing the views of so many voters in the uk and I think he really revealed himself to be out of touch with the thougths of many by his ill-advised "bigot" comments.

Immigration cannot go on unchecked. It's not bigotted nor racist to suggest this, it's just fact. I think if you lived in an area where there were a lot of immigrants, you might begin to see the strain on public services and the impact on community life.

I live by a big city and pretty much everyone I know sees a MASSIVE change in the last few years to the city centre. Many are afraid to go into town due to the large amounts of foreign guys who stand in groups and ogle the women. No matter how you cut it, multiculturalism does not work, lovely as it sounds.

I lived for two years in the middle east and really felt the cultural differences emerge, no matter how much effort I made to adapt and learn the language.

I don't see why people have a problem with accepting the reality of the situation. I can only imagine that they like the idea of multiculturalism but have no experience of the real thing. It's great to think we can all enhance one another's culture by being in the same place, but in reality it leads to division, distrust and contempt on both sides, purely because our values are so different at times. That is, unless our cultural values are similar.

Where our values are similar, through education, then we can see much more success.

This is true all over the world. People groups get on best with people groups like themselves. It's just human nature. We're all the same under the skin and feel more comfortable with those others that share our values.

Actually, I don't mean to generalise as within people groups you can find like-minded individuals to get on with.

I am really not a racist. I've been out with guys from all over the world before I married my American husband. I know the things that bind people together are common ideas and goals and without that, where ideas and goals are conflicting, then it's very difficult to co-exist with ease. That's true all over the globe, not just here. It's human nature to gel with people like ourselves...

PMSL. your entire post was a massive small minded generalisation.

your post is so naive and facile on so many levels I have no idea where to start.

your dh is quite right, foxy! I have thought the same for years. There are loads of under-reported parallels between germany and britain in these years. The huge difference of course, is that britain had the Establishment to rein in democracy and maintain stability, whereas germany isnt run in the same way, is very community based, (which is usually be a good thing), and had the very charismatic Hitler.

IMO, the word bigot is very over-used in left wing circles, and is just thrown at anyone who doesnt agree with every tenet of the prevailing views. So in these terms, she is definitely a bigot.
In the dictionary meaning of the word, I dont think she is - I think she is probably just worried about stuff that she may not have studied in depth.
The difference between her saying it and Nick Griffin sayin it, is that Nick Griffin is a professional politician, and therefore one is entitled to assume that he should have studied these issues in detail, and should know better.

Yes she was a bigot but he should have been more careful

You're all mistaken. He said that she was a big titted woman

I wonder if all the spainish people are sitting in their houses complaining of 'all these brits, coming here, taking our houses, and our jobs' Because we, as part of the EU, are entitled to go to spain and live and work there. Therefore the Polish people are also entitled to come here, we have a lot of polish people in this area (A lot of them work at Ocado) but I don't see all this 'taking of houses etc' most of them house share or private rent

I think that the worst part was that he was so unpleasant to his team. Why was it 'ridiculous' to have to meet her? Surely he should meet and talk to everyone who comes his way and not those vetted first? I don't think that I would last long working for him if he is going to throw tantrums about a perfectly normal encounter.

come on he is under major stress, I dont blame him for sounding off.
Not smart to throw the word bigot around though.

Henry, you're post is bigotted, let's stop using this as a swear word, you have by your own admission generalised and made prejudices. YOu've justified that by conceding to dating people from overseas, although culturally they don't appear to be wildly different (American)
There are no doubt problems occuring from the mass immigration from poorer EU countries, but it is a dangerous path to tread to continue to sweep them all into this bin of 'it's their fault, all our problems'. I live near Cambridge where the police have had to employ translators, where schools now have majority non-english speaking pupils, where maternity wards are flooded with people from overseas. But we need to address police, education and health to take into account our new situation. We are in the EU, this isn't going away.
It's a simple case of supply and demand. People come to our country for jobs, they get the job if they can prove the are the best candidate, in these tough economic times, the best candidate is the one that will do the most for least. The answer? Work harder to get that job, don't believe that you deserve that job because you are British. I really beleve that if we eradicated our benefits culture and adopted a culture wher people take pride in the jobs...whatever they do, that we could tackle this issue. If the jobs weren't they, people wouldn't come, it's hardly as if they come for the good weather?!

Fearne - I have to disagree with your post on jobs. My dh is a self-employed skilled tradesman and his wage has gone down significantly in the last few years, at least by half. One of the issues has been the recession, but another is the employment of foreign workers who will work for a much lower wage. This means workers either have to match their price or struggle to find work.

This, plus the strain on other public resources is why we have resentment and bitterness. I don't think the woman interviewed was a bigot or a racist for highlighting an issue which is a problem in many areas, she just didn't word herself very well.

I really hate to say this as i seems so insensitive, and this may be where I back out quietly. But are you saying that DH should get paid a higher wage because he is British and the Eastern Europeans should NOT do these jobs because we should protect our tradesmen from competition?
Should the government have a policy to make us all shop in British supermarkets even though they are more expensive than their foreign counterparts?

I thought she sounded it-it was the "where are they all coming from" and the "but you can´t say anything about it/them".

Glad it gave you good laugh Foxy as I've been smiling to myself reading your ramblings too and thinking you're speaking a lot of tosh.

Yes I think so too.

And can we stop this 'she was just expressing the views of ordinary voters' crap. If the majority of voters beleived in the death penalty for extra-marital sex would we still think that GB should have listened, nodded sagely and not been disgusted. There are a lot of people with mildly racist bigoted views in the UK. They are still wrong.

Shallow point - but doesn't she look OLD. I mean, she's only 66 but looks 80. Irrelevant to the discussion, I know.

No, I'm not saying my dh should be paid more than anyone else, in fact foreign workers are being exploited as they are doing a job which is worth significantly more than they are being paid. I also wouldn't brand it as competition, more like daylight robbery, my dh's wage has reduced in the last two years by half. Many are working for minimum wage or less if illegally employed!

However, its bound to cause resentment when people cannot find work that will pay the mortgage. I would imagine it would force many to claim benefit who don't wish too. There has to be better controls which monitor how many people are allowed to enter the country and which skills they possess. For example, why are skilled tradesmen allowed in when there aren't enough jobs for British workers?