to be really scared of the Tories getting into power?

[Coldhands]

I've never really been into politics but now I have a DS, I am thinking about the things that have helped us etc and I realised that Labour has actually done a lot to improve the things that I think are important.

If the Tories get in, the things they want to change/cut effects me and my family and I am really really dreading them getting into power to the point that it is making me quite upset.

I am on In Cap benefit for M.E./CFS and everytime I have a medical I have to prove how I cannot work. It is difficult to do this with a fluctuating condition that you cannot test for or see and the Tories want to retest everyone on In Cap with harder tests and I am terrified of not passing and being forced back to work where I would end up at square one again and have no energy, have to give up work again and go through the whole sodding process again whilst not being able to afford to live.

Then they want to get rid of the Child Trust Fund for anyone who earns over £16000. My DH earns just over this and it wouldn't be fair to subsequent DCs for them not to have a TF and DS has one so we would have to find the money to start them one.

They want to cut funding to Surestart that I have found to be absolutely brilliant and it really helped me when I had PND. There is more stuff that I can't remember and don't want to make my post too long.

I have sent off my postal vote so I have a voice but me and my DH were talking and we really don't see Labour getting back in as there are so many people who are fed up them and blame them for everything. One reader in The Sun (I know, quality paper that I read) was blaming Gordon Brown for the sodding volcano.

AIBU?

scaryteacher I believe the definition of someone who is intolerant of the views of others, is "bigot".

I think we're in for a tough time whoever gets in. If Tories do get in they will have to put up tax/cut benefits/cut spending to sort out the financial mess that Labour has got us into. If Labour get in they will do the same.

Most large companies, Richard Brnason etc are saying that Tories have the better economic policies for the stability of the country. I think we need to look at the bigger picture of sorting the country out.

Tories will put VAT up to 19.5% apparantly, I'm not looking forward to that but will accept that and other stuff rather than seeing us where Greece is.

I was going to say that Ski, but didn't want to labelled controversial as well as prejudiced!

Surely though we can agree on the fact that the country is in the shit financially, however we got there a great deal of that was to do with offering and giving away money that we didn't have. (Thanks GB) Then to really get us in the shit, a global recession occurs meaning that GB definitely can't get us out of the shit that he plonked us in to start off with.

Bearing all this in mind (and notwithstanding the fact that to the greater point GB is self elected!) there definitely needs to be some form of change, either a different party in govt with a business strategy to get us out of the shit, and probably a new leader too. If you put the country in a business context then the MD would have been fired by now, but this hasn't happened and the person who got us in the shit still seems to think he can get us out which I don't believe HE can.

Yes some people are concerned with regards to the Tories getting in, but there have been nearly 2 decades since they were last in power and a large amount of the people who were in govt then aren't and won't be this time round.

In addition to that the world has changed, we have had many major unprecidented incidences since the last Tory govt, (911, 7/7, global recession, military situations) these were things that occured on a very minor scale last time the Tories were in govt but essentially the WORLD is different. With this difference neither the current labour party or the last tory party would be relevant but we have all had to grow and change and adapt.

Therefore I do wish everyone would stop harping back to the when Maggie was in power, it is not relevant now. Just like it wasn't relevant to harp back to the previous labour party and why Labour became "new labour" under Tony Blair.

Whoever takes over, there are going to be tax increases, VAT increases, cuts in spending and starting to build on what we have and decreasing our debt. Of course no one wants their life to change but it is going to have to so as the yanks say "Suck it Up!" We are all going to suffer in someway and I would prefer it wasn't GB who fucked up so badly to start off with by spending more than we have and encouraging this debt is fine culture. If they come up with someone else then I might consider them again, but until then I am reserving my judgement until Thursday.

Scaryteacher, I would laugh at your 61K point, if only it weren't so horrific.

God, I hope the Conservatives win.

"So because some of us don't think the same way as you Janos we are prejudiced?"

I think tyou've misundersttood me scaryteacher. What I said was "some people are not worth engaging with".

You've decided that I'm referring to anyone everyone who doesn't agree with me and don't want to have a proper discussion with anyone on this thread.

May I ask why, when that is not what I said?

Great points Doodleydoo - I think Paxman also didn't get that policy-making has to change and adapt according to the world we live in, and new issues that come up all the time. It made his questioning of all 3 candidates a bit annoying when he was trying to pin them for having supported something at a time in the past or tried to make them promise they wouldn't do something in the future.

I inferred that from what you had written Janos; that is how it came across to me.

Have only skimmed thread, and am loathe to get involved in this, but have had to respond.

OP - YANBU

What scares me about this thread is the amount of posters who seem to think that the evil tories are the only ones who are going to make cuts and hurt the vunerable. Whichever party gets in has an awful few years coming up. I am personally stunned that the parties are fighting so hard to win the election. As Mervyn King, the Head of the BoE has said, he thinks that whichever party gets in risks never winning another election for a whole generation. Why? Because as a country we are so deeply in debt, severe cutbacks have to be made. And whichever party is seen to be doing this - will be deeply unpopular.

And those who are raving about labour, these are the facts (there or thereabouts as cannot be bothered to look up numbers to the exact amount.)

• Gordon Brown is borrowing £164 billion this year alone, for every 4 pounds we spend, the government borrows a pound
• We are in a phenonemal amount of debt. Exact amounts differ according to which economist you listen to. Estimates on existing debt are between £900 billion to £1.3 trillion.
• We are on track to borrow another £80 billion a year for the next 4 years without even cutting into that deficit.

Why? Because of a lot of things.

• Defence spending has been phenomenal. Last time I looked, it was the labour government that sent this country to wars.
• We have continued to spend money as a government (even in the boom years) that we dont have. Of course if you do that, it is easy to give 'freebies' away. (namely, Health in pregnancy grants and CTF's)
• Despite all the stealth taxes bought in, this government has continued to spend more than it can afford. Why people think this is a good thing is beyond me. How do posters propose this money is recouped?

Re the non doms (Ashcroft issue) bought up further down the thread. Lord Paul and Mr Strasburger are both non doms who have respectively donated to the Labour and Lib Dem coffers.

Re the public school/ bullingdon club comments. Do people think that Clegg is not from a posh background? The man is ex City of Westminster educated. His wife is a partner at DLA, and they live in a £1 million plus house.

For all the posters who are stating that they need x,y,z benefits, how do you propose we pay for them as a country? I am not having a go. And I think benefits are so crucially important.

But really - as a country we are in a bad bad situation. How are so many people missing that fact?

Oops, make that YABU

Reading back again I understand how it could have come across that way scaryteacher but really that was not what I meant - it was badly worded. Sorry for any offence caused.

'Defence spending has been phenomenal'; I have to take issue here - the cost of Afghanistan and Iraq do not come out of the defence budget, but out of the Government reserve. They are taking 90 million out of the core defence budget this year to help cover costs, which involved closing an RAF base, cutting ships and making HM Forces personnel redundant.

Well said Mistletoe!

Accepted Janos! Thanks for apologising.

The deregulation of the banks was done by Gordon Brown in 1997 in his capacity as chancellor (2 Weeks after coming into power). Thatcher was actually the person who put very strong regulation around the banks in her 1988 Finance Act. There used to be 6 separate bodies regulating the banks.

Gordon Brown is also the one who removed the Pension regulations that existed, especially the pensions cap. The Pension cap was in place to stop senior personnel negotiating huge pensions in line with their salaries. How else do you think Sir Fred Goodwin got his £700,000 pension?

Then there was the raiding of the pension funds, leaving many funds closed and people without pensions. How does that help the normal person on the street?

DS2 needs a feed, so gotta run, will be back to cover off other points, but all I will say is that everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, that goes without saying, but please lay the 'blame' where it is appropriate.