to be really scared of the Tories getting into power?

[Coldhands]

I've never really been into politics but now I have a DS, I am thinking about the things that have helped us etc and I realised that Labour has actually done a lot to improve the things that I think are important.

If the Tories get in, the things they want to change/cut effects me and my family and I am really really dreading them getting into power to the point that it is making me quite upset.

I am on In Cap benefit for M.E./CFS and everytime I have a medical I have to prove how I cannot work. It is difficult to do this with a fluctuating condition that you cannot test for or see and the Tories want to retest everyone on In Cap with harder tests and I am terrified of not passing and being forced back to work where I would end up at square one again and have no energy, have to give up work again and go through the whole sodding process again whilst not being able to afford to live.

Then they want to get rid of the Child Trust Fund for anyone who earns over £16000. My DH earns just over this and it wouldn't be fair to subsequent DCs for them not to have a TF and DS has one so we would have to find the money to start them one.

They want to cut funding to Surestart that I have found to be absolutely brilliant and it really helped me when I had PND. There is more stuff that I can't remember and don't want to make my post too long.

I have sent off my postal vote so I have a voice but me and my DH were talking and we really don't see Labour getting back in as there are so many people who are fed up them and blame them for everything. One reader in The Sun (I know, quality paper that I read) was blaming Gordon Brown for the sodding volcano.

AIBU?

YAB a little U.

I don't like them, I don't want them in..

But I am scared that the BNP, UKIP and a few others might get in. Very scared. I have already told my husband that if it ever happens I would leave and NEVER come back to this country if they do as well.

"Thatcher had one of the more "normal" upbringings and it hardly imbued her with empathy."

She's gone, and the party is not the same now. But on the other hand she seriously gets a bad press. For the sake of the whole country she needed to break the unions who were just tearing us apart. It was horrendous, and having been brought up in a mining area (and now living in another) it has devastated regions. But that's better than a destroyed country.

What she failed to do, one of her biggest political failings, was to ensure that once broken, they could be mended/redirected/supported in a different direction. However, it is fair to say that after all these years Labour's done absolutely nothing to sort it out either (a few extra benefits does not a solution make - people are still off work and regions are still like ghost towns).

And Labour has had its share of major regional breakdowns. Think Corus in the North East, and the Rover fiasco. Labour has single handedly done more to destroy UK manufacturing than the Cons ever did, as well as taxing companies into oblivion and adding the most incredible amounts of red tape, and as someone recently pointed out, we can't survive as a country if we're all cutting hair or answering phones. We need to MAKE stuff.

I'll give you an example of how Labour cuts costs. If an employee doesn't pay their council tax, they get a deduction of wages straight from the employer. The employer is given a schedule and has to send the money to the council. The employer is allowed to debit ONE POUND from the employee in administrative costs. The employer will actually pay its payroll service approx an additional £5, plus internal management time, plus the cost of a cheque, envelope and stamp - another £1 or so. Then when the council screws it up (which they do all the time) there's another load of time and money to spend. Multiply that by a number of employees and there's a lot of costs for something which is NOTHING to do with the employer - it's tax collection for goodness' sake!

On another side of it, Labour have just sent a letter with a nice new stealth tax. Registration with Data Protection (who frankly do bugger all) has gone from IRO £20 to £500 for companies over the smallest size. That's some tax increase. This is happening all the time as they add tax after tax, which most people don't see.

I wasn't trying to make a political point about Tatcher just that trying to use someones background fr or against them is flawed. Plenty of major social welfare reform in the past has been driven by extremely wealthy peoplewho had no experience of how th e other 90% live. They were still capable of empathy and having an intelligent approach to resolving problmes.

No-one wittered on about Tony Blairs background. It's about policy and whetehr those policies are practical in the current climate (IMVHO)

kew sorry, I see I took your comment out of the comment that it was intended. My response was to the general assertion that the "Tories are evil - just look at MT" as opposed to you, as it were.

And don't humble your own opinions

dagnabit, "comment out of the CONTEXT"

TBH I am more worried about labour getting in again. Its not like they have a great track record on the economy and they have spent so money they just don't have... plus increased taxes with dishonest stealth taxes... and let house prices have gone through the roof as they didn't put in lid of borrowing so now the next generation are priced and and lots of younger people at risk of neagtive equity on their starter tiny flats.

...yes maybe you get the child tax credit or free nursery school places (not actually worth that much - esp as tories not going to implement all planned NI increases) etc but its window dressing as taxes are much higher than they were.... whoever gets in will have to cut cut cut, its just the Tories are being slightly more honest about it. The economy is in a dire state and its going to be tough regardless of who gets in.

I'm not saying that the Tories are the answer, I don't know who can solve the massive problems we have but I do think we need a change and therefore I think YABU to be scared of the Tories getting in... Like other posters I am worried about BNP getting some power, now that would be scary...

I with you on the constant references to Thatcher - personally I'm not voting Labour because of Harold Wilson/Jim Callaghan - I am old enough to remember taking an oil lamp to bed and watching rubbish piling up in the street!

(I assume its the thing these days to just select past leader to use as a reason not to vote for that party regardless of their current policies)

I agree with carrots - the Childs trust fund is a complete wste of time. What good is £250 going to do - with low interest rates etc it's hardly going to grow and make a dent in that £20k student debt!

Also agree winter fuel allowance should be means tested. My mum gets it and really doesn't need it. She's comfortable because she was financially prudent - worked, saved and bargain hunted all her life.

The Sure start childrens centre's are lovely but I raised two children without one.

As for immigration.........have people not worked out that the mass influx of immigrants has squeezed the lower paid end of the jobs market?

Good point kew

Anyone remember the 2005 election? Seem to recall the pollsters all predicting a hung parliament. Am I confused about this?

YABU - and I'm fed up with political threads from thinly disguised lobbyists so IABU too

whatwasthatagain

"Everything you say in your post implies that you rely on the state to provide you with many things - you have an illness which does not show up on tests but you cannot work. Your DC will need to get out more but you cannot afford to send him to nursery, and yet you talk about having more children? I despair."

How fucking dare you! I don't rely on handouts, they just make our lives a little bit easier. My DH works full time but it isn't a great wage and we would struggle on it to support a family.

I have an illness that means I cannot work but I refuse to let it put me off having the children I have aways wanted (and was told I couldn't have). I'm not going to be able to have as many as I wanted, I always wanted a big family but 2 will have to be our limit due to our circumstances.

Your comment has pissed me right off as you are implying I am like these who have 10 children and sit on their backsides all day
while the state pays thousands for everything.

Riven love that video!!!! Any idea how I would put a link on facebook?

Coldhands, is it unfair to my DS that he was born pre-CTFs and DD was born post-CTFs? Personally I think that if you earn over 16K, you can afford to save a small amount for your subsequent children without needing a £250 handout.

I want the Conservatives to win the election so much that it hurts.

YANBU

they seem so clueless about the economy, thinking they can save billions by "making things more efficient".

making things more efficient = rapid widespread job and service cuts

2old4thislark - that comment about the surestart centres is completely fatuous - you cant on the one hand moan that they are taken over by the middle classes and then on the other say that people can do just as well without them - they can, and do, help people who are socially excluded with their parenting. People who by definition arent doing that well without them.

You cant moan on about our so-called Broken Britain on the one hand and then dismiss the very things that are trying to help.

Round our way the opposition election material complains that the youth have nothing to do and are hanging about intimidating people and then on the next page complains that the council are spending too much on a new youth centre. good grief.

I am worried that my son will lose his nursery place, we pay around £170 a month on top of the free hours and cant really afford more than that BUT we need the place so that my husband and I can work from home. Our income is to high to qualify for the tax credits childcare help. He has also benefited from one to one attention from a special needs keyworker at nursery. Very worried he will lose this.

Great post TSC.

TSC, I'm sorry but I just don't agree with your selfish/caring about other people comment.

As for the other points: well, here are some comments on a choice few.

"There?s 44,000 more doctors and 89,000 more nurses now than then." How many of them trained here? Good lord, if the NHS is in as dire a state as it's in with all these extra people working in it, that just goes to show how desperately it needs fundamentally re-thinking.

As for waiting for operations: you're quite right about people being 'seen' within 18 weeks. However, that doesn't mean they're operated on within 18 weeks. It means someone can tick a box to say that they have been seen and, therefore, are no longer on the waiting list. Did you ever see Bodies, BTW? My sister's husband is a ob/gynae consultant, and he was shocked by how very true-to-life it was.

IHT: doesn't only affect millionaires!

Sure Start: begs too many questions to know where to begin.

DNA: do you want your children's DNA stored by their school in the form of fingerprints?

ID cards: do you want to end up living in a police state?

Higher Education: speaking as a former university teacher, I can say that at least half the students shouldn't be there at all. The whole of higher/further ed needs just as radically overhauling as the NHS. As for 'five or more good GCSEs': well, I recently looked at a Physics GCSE with my seven-year-old, who scored full marks on every paper. I could answer most of the questions, and I never took a Physics exam in my life because I was so unspeakably crap at Physics. GCSEs are a complete sham, and need to be abolished.

LOL at DC and his wife's day-school, though. However, I suspect the comment was taken out of context!

It doesn't matter who you vote for - the Government always gets in.

I am scared too. It will be truly awful.

My experience of the NHS under tory and labour are completely different to yours herbietea.

My suspected cancer growth under tories took months for me to get to see consultant.

My other suspected cancer experience 2 years ago took 2 months from initial discovery of the lump on a major organ (incidental as they were actually checking for something else) to the removal and testing of said lump.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, my experience must have cost thousands and I will forever be grateful.