Circumcision?

[Claire236]

I've never started a thread in AIBU before as it can be quite scary so please be nice. My dh was circumcised as an adult for medical reasons & ds1 had to have an operation so has in effect been circumcised. ds2 (almost 5 months) is as nature intended but I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to have him circumcised. Firstly as that way he will grow up looking the same as his brother & dad which I think could make a difference to how he feels when he gets a bit older. Secondly because it seems more hygenic. I'm unsure due to the fact that ds1s op for horribly painful & I wouldn't want to put ds2 through that for no good reason. I haven't spoken to my GP about this so don't know when is normal to have it done or anything but I'd really like to know if people think I'm BU considering this.

'I also think it's much nicer for the woman.'

That's abit disturbing that someone would prefer mens parts only when mutilated/changed. Abit like a man who says he finds a woman with fake tits much nicer for a man. It freaks me out when women convince themselves that it is OK/better.

"Can I ask those on here whose sons have had it done; was it really awful?"

No it was not. My 2 DSs had it done (religious reason) they both had different procedures done.Both were fully aware of what was happening.

DS1(5 at the time): had local anestetic, procedure inviolved stitching as well. It was quite painful when the anestetic wore off and for the next 2/3 days but was fine with painkillers. After 3 days it was not painful at all anymore according to him and on the 5th day he went to the beach with us and was totally fine.

DS2(6 at the time): the procedure involved local anestetic (I was there this time round) no stiching involved, a platic ring was placed at the end of his pennis to cut the blood circulation to the foreskin. He chatted about our holidays with the doctor throughout the procedure. It took about 3 weeks for the ring to fall off (because he was quite old,according to the doctor,it takes between 1 and 2 weeks for younger hildren). Again in pain when anestetic wore off but was playing outside with his brother the next day.

I think the procedure DS2 had was better, It took more time to be "complete" but was painfull for a shorter time. It was also much easier to dress (no need for loads of desinfectant and no problem at all to go to the toilet, even minutes after the provcedure)

The reason I think my son should have had his operation done sooner is that he was in a lot of pain from the age of around six months onwards when experiencing an erection.

He was put through lots of very painful "stretching" techniques, which had no effect whatsoever and were incredibly distressing.

The medical establishment are very anti - circumsision in this country. He has not been mutilated - it was just a tiny flap of skin that was removed and he is now a happy normal teenager. Ignorance and talk of "mutilation" do not help matters.

The surgeon who performed the operation was very blunt about why the hell this little boy had been left to suffer when it should have been performed much much earlier.

If you do have to have your son circumsised one tip is, do not leave any dressings on after you leave the hospital - if they stick it is a very painful thing to remove them.

littlemoominmama - has the OP said that her DS is in pain? No.

I don't know what relevance your posts have - there is no medical condition here as far as anyone knows.

And the phrase 'little flap of skin' is really offensive. So's my labia.

IMO no adult woman with a healthy and happy relationship with sex and men's bodies would make a significant assessment of sexual partners based on whether they were circumcised or not. I find it hard to believe that alongside horror at the increasing trend for women to have surgery which 'enhances' the look of perfectly NORMAL labia (ffs) women can blithely discuss surgery to 'improve' men sexually. It is tosh anyway. I have had fantastic sexual relationships with men in both camps. And you simply cannot generalise about the supposed effects.

Unless you have deep seated religious reasons to circumcise (and those of us who do not find that hard enough to understand, but personally I reserve judgement) or there is an actual problem, leave your child well alone.

Men don't enjoy sex as much by the way if they've have had it done but they don't like to admit that.

It is also in my view a breach of the rights of the child.

Xenia-my husband seems to enjoy sex well enough!

And if they´ve had it done as a child how would they know?

Ladybiscuit - the relevance of my posts is that I have personal experience of circumsision (both my husband and son) and merely passing on my experiences (in order to help those who also have to have their sons "done" for medical reasons so that they are not made to feel that they are deliberatly maiming or taking away sexual pleasure from their boys ).

My boys have lost NO sensation from the tip of their penis and as the surgeon said they have the same number of nerve endings as any other man so why would they??

It is a tiny flap of skin they take off, my son has his in a jar and it is the size of a one pence piece. Your labia has nerve endings and is essential to a womans ability to feel pleasure when having sex - a foreskin does not and is not!

I find your reply offensive however, You obviously have a lot more experience and knowlage in this area to tell my I should not be posting on this thread.

The head of a penis is covered in a very thin and sensitive mucous membrane. Without a foreskin to protect it, the skin gets thicker and hence less sensitive. I'm an uncircumcised bloke and I remember how sensitive my glans was when I was a boy. For a reasonable comparison, think "inside of your eyelid".

The foreskin itself is not just a "normal" bit of skin. It's loaded with nerve endings and is very sensitive. In particular the frenulum (where the glans joins the foreskin underneath) is incredibly sensitive but is largely lost in a circumcision.

If a boy needs to be circumcised for medical reasons then fair enough. But if it's not medically necessary then I find it abhorrent that parents would choose that to be done to their child. Let the owner of the penis decide what gets sliced off it when he's old enough to give informed consent.

And, littlemoominmama, you don't have "personal experience" of circumcision. You (presumably, at least) don't have a penis.

That's as crass as me saying "I have personal experience of giving birth" because I was in the room when my children were born.

Hello, Thread killer here

claire236 and anyone else contemplating having this carried out on their litle bundle please watch this video 1st

This shows you what actually happens when a baby is circumsised, If you are happy for that to be done to your baby then go ahead .

But this is the reality of a real circumsicion on a real baby I don't reccomend that you watch it while your dc are about. And personally I find it distressing. So you have been warned.

HTH

Snorbs - I have added that my experience is re; my son and husband. At no time did I say I had a penis!

My husband and son still have their frenulum (it is not removed) AND the end of their penis is still covered by skin unless erect - just the same as you! There is NO thickening of the skin - this is a myth.

The ignorance on here is very sad and probably very frightening for anyone who has a son awaiting this operation.

I'm talking from very recent experience. Both my DS' have been circumsised. DS1, 4 yrs a go and DS2 6 months a go. They were around 10 days old. Both done through a private clinic. Using a method called plastibell. Both DS' didn't feel a thing, apart from the needle to numb to the area. It was done within 10 minutes. The healing took about 1 week. My DH was with both our DS' through the whole procedure and they were held by nurses to keep them still. My DH is jewish and was circumsised the old fashion way by a rabbi. We both don't agree with this type of method. My DH has had plenty of discussions with his friends over the years and the majority have had problems with their foreskin in their childhood and adult life.

Xenia, How do you know?

Aside from medical reasons, I often wonder how a mother could let someone do that to their precious child. I could not, I love my sons far too much to put him through such pain/brutality of uneccesary surgery. How did people get so brainwashed? Strong medical reasons is very different but ANY other reason is cruel and barbaric these days.

Jellybean I love my sons very much. They were subjected to no pain or brutality. My baby son was more upset that we had to wake him up and take his nappy off at the time.

I am not saying you don't love yours (or other people who circ for non medical reasons) just that I just don't understand how a mother can let it be done to a little baby. I find it hard going for jabs, heel pricks etc with mine when they are little.

Can i just say i had this dilemma when both my boys were born. My DH has had numerous operations on his manhood for medical reasons and for that, he is circumcised. It is hereditary but luckily as of yet there are no physical signs of medical assistance on my boys areas. Although my husband did start to have problems when he was older than a toddler. So when both my boys were born, we considered having them circumcised so that they wouldnt go through what their father went through. We did dismiss this and HV said she would keep an eye on it due to some Redness of DS1s area.

I did read a study which claimed that babies sometimes don't cry with circumcision (without pain relief) as they go into a type of 'shock'. Mine screamed at all their jabs etc so find it hard to think a baby wouldn't feel or mind circumcision.

LittleMoomin - I have found that the glans in an uncircumcised penis is dry and less sensitive, but that is not to say that sexual pleasure isn't complete.

Ritual circumcision without anaesthetic seems very different from a medical procedure. And I am sorry to say that a member of my family who has close experience of this in a UK hospital where many muslim children are born says that babies do scream, and often suffer shock, as a result of circumcision. The effects are temporary, but if it means so much that people do this, then be matter of fact and honest about the distress. Many religious rituals are based on social and cultural context - I am not surprised that the Bris (circumcision of Jewish babies) is conducted in a male only ceremony, as few new mothers could watch and listen.

But circumcision done because the foreskin is causing a genuine medical problem should not be seen as such a terrible thing, bringing stigma and worry on the child and family. If it needs doing, it needs doing.

jellybeans It wasn't a nice experience for me no matter how quick and painless it was for both my DS'. I would never have given my permission if I knew they could feel what was going on. DS2 was BF and cooing 10 mins after the procedure. I found their routine jabs after effects bothered them more.

I don't understand why people want to justify themselves by saying it doesn't hurt, what bullcrap of course it hurts!

Agree with SGB - Why not lop off the bottom of our ears while we are at it they seem pretty useless to me.

Not had time to thoroughly read thread, sorry.

As an adult woman I have er, enjoyed the circumcised willies I have met (!)

However it is not a practice I could ever bring myself to do to my own child. It's easy to be hygenic if you want to be. Circumcision hurts, can be dangerous if something goes wrong, and reduces sensitivity in men, hence it is one of the reasons many men seek to restore their foreskin

My nephew was circumcised against my sister's will at her (muslim IL's house. It was done sneakily (she was prevented from leaving a downstairs room by someone who kept her talking), and it was brutal, she heard him screaming, forced her way upstairs to find him screaming and bleeding

I suppose this obviously colours my view of it but I'd say leave well alone, he can join his brother and dad later in life if he chooses to - (I also know one person who has done this although I suspect it had something to do with trying to make his look bigger) - wouldn't you rather give him a choice??

gorionine thank you for your informative post, can I ask why different procedures were offered to you? Can I expect to have a choice of what is done? What is the benefit of the ring versus surgery apart from recovery time?

snorbs is right. It does have an effec ton sex. It was invented in countries where sand got stuck up there in the desert like most of the Jewish and muslim dietary laws. We don't live in the desert any more and the practice belongs there unless medically necessary.

Despite my view it breaches the rights of the child to take such a momentous decision about their bodies and sexuality for them I would not ban it in the same way we have made it illegal genitally mutilate little girls as the effects aer not as harsh and in general I'm not in favour of banning things but I am grateful in the Uk we have the freedom to express views against the operation and glad NHS resources and my tax are not used on it simply out of parental choice.