To actually feel this way?

[MNKeepsMeSane]

OK i know I am but i really have tried.

I am a reg who has name changed.

I have 2 children the eldest is such hard work and as much as I love my eldest I just don't like him or his behaviour. This morning I have had an hour long lecture about how i am a rubbish mother because i didn't have money to give him to buy songs drinks at school, but did give him a bottle of juice to take. In turn he walked past youngest and hit him round the head.

He then went into his room to get dressed and stood throwing a football at the wall.

this is just one thing in a long line of many and tbh i am worn out. I love him with all my heart yet I cannot like him because of the way he behaves and the evil things he says to me. I dont treat him badly, I take him out for day trips where we all have fun - as long as I don't speak to him.

The other day I took them both out with dfamily and we had a brilliant day until my nephew homed in on me for a hug - which i had tried to give ds1 already - and ds1 ended up walking over and telling me he hated me.

He also pushed my younger nephew off of a small fence so he fell backwards onto the cobble stones banging his head and grazing his back.

I am so worn out with everything. I have camhs coming out soon but i am sat here once again on the edge of tears because of it all.

My mum has also noticed the way he works now iyswim? for example if i arrange a day out he will kick off so he gets left behind then moan he doesn't go anywhere,(only ever been left behind once) when i take him out he moans that its boring and shows me up so we go home and then he moans i don't take him anywhere.

I am meant to be visiting friends this weekend and he has already told me if i take him he will show me up and if i don't he will scream when i come home.....

Last week i went out with friends and their children, he threatened me all week that if i took him he would show off and ruin the day. I ended up calling my friend and saying i wouldn't be going, when i told her why she told me i had to go and not let him dictate to me.

Yesterday DS2 had a chocolate bar left over from an easter egg,DS1 had eaten all of his, and DS1 took it and hid it, it was only the fact that DS2 was crying and asking for it back that alerted me to it and I found it hidden between a stack of books. DS1 blamed DS2 who could not have possibly reached where it had been hidden.

I cannot leave money around as he takes it and even when caught with it lies about where he got it from.

he is 11 btw and this behaviour has been going on for 7 1/2 years.

He's angry about something evidently and perhaps jealous of ds2, in that ds2 has his 'real' Dad and he doesn't? I know it's not rational, but these things rarely are.

There is also a difference between ds2 being a baby who is no threat really, and the same ds2 becoming enquiring, ambulatory and communicative.

He's pushing your buttons, and the boundaries. Keep the boundaries in place and enforce them; keep telling him you love him; ask him what he is angry about and what he is scared of.

If he threatens to play up on a day out, then ask him why. Offer an alternative like a day at his grandparents, or being with you whilst ds2 and dp go out. You could also offer the alternative of him living elsewhere with his Dad if he is so unhappy with you guys and see what the response is.

I think a lot of this could be that he is feeling the rejection by his own Dad and can only express it by lashing out at the people that he loves and that love him. If he sees ds2 having a great Dad relationship (even though he may have exactly the same relationship with your dp), it will hurt and he will feel that his own dad doesn't love him/value him and will try to express that, even if he can't articulate it to himself.

It's hideous that you have to shoulder the blame for his dad leaving, and yes it was over 10 years ago, but I am not even over my dad disowning me (never wanted me and I ruined his aspirations by being born when he was 20 ) he did this at 19 and I am now 39!!!

It does sound like it's an issue though if you are still getting the blame just by being there, and he is defo acting out. What can be done about the relationship between him and his dad? It would be nice for you if he could spend some time away with his dad if only to give you a break! Has the dad openly blamed you? Do they speak on the phone?

I know the leaving behind bit is difficult for me, as an Army wife I am on my own a lot too. On Sunday it took ds 3 hours to get out of the house, and get in the car for Tesco's and I desperately needed sanitary towels, I was nearly in tears...lucky for me ds is small and I carried him to the car and nearly tied his seatbelt on him...

Hopefully the help you get will provide you with practical support, but all the anger and attention seeking seems like a big cry for help.

Do you have a network of people so that you can get out and get yourself a big glass of wine in the evenings and have a life for yourself? Sometimes taking yourself away from the situation may help?

Can you prepare for any events eg know that he will kick off on a special outing so ask PIL to be be prepared to stay with him and you go off with the other kids? Bet that would be a big of a blow to him and make him realise how much he misses you...

and no,YANBU, just shouldering it all yourself, and feeling a bit frazzled. Give yourself a pat on the back - you haven't abandoned him, he's your number 1 DS!

My god, maybe theyre twins lol, you are describing dd !

Up until recently she'd always been an angel at school but has been trying the mind games etc there, I remember one incident fondly

Me and were in townm dd said she wanted a drink, I d fine, we'll go and get a drink from the shop,dd then said :-

dd- I want sweets too

me:-no not today, you've had some and it's tea time soon, we'll get you a drnk, then when we get home you can help me with tea, you're good at that.

dd:- when we get to the shop i'm going to have a tantrum

Me :- After being warned of the consequences an given a chance to calm down etc said,as you obviously can't cope with going to the shop in a sensible way, we will go straight home.

Just as I said this dd's headteacher appeared

Ht :- oh hi little cheese, did you have nice xmas ?

Dd:- yes, it was lovely

Ht:- Oooh, I love your coat, very pretty.

dd :- Thank you, my mummy bought it for me

We stand chatting for around 5 mins, all is fne, ht leaves and we carry on walking and chatting, as soon as ht is out of sight dd turns to me and says ' do you realise how disgusting you are ? '

I then took her by the elbow and marched her home.

dd:- when we get to the shop i'm going to have a tantrum

OMG they must be twins!!

Oh and then there's the birthday parties !!

Dd used to orchestrate an outburst at each and every family members birthday ' because she was jealous it's their birthday and not hers' that's word for word btw.

I say used to, she hasnt done it since she started one on the way to her cousins party, I immediately turned round and took her home, funny that .....

Swiss when did you steal my DS1's twin??? he used to do that until i did the same!!!!

dd:- when we get to the shop i'm going to have a tantrum

Why not say - so am I and start kicking off too?

Nothing like embarassing a dc

TheLadyEvenstar, I don't blame you one bit for feeling like this.

My ds sounds very much like yours and I have to admit that I do resent him being such sheer hard work and his attitude to me being so unpleasant.

We have been through CAMHS too, but they were unable to offer any help. He was diagnosed as being exceptionally bright and feels his needs are not being met. It is a sorry situation to be in.

I hope it turns out well for you

wow - you have the patience of 10 saints! I am sorry, but just would not put up with this behaviour.

My10 yr old got a bit mouthy last year and was turning into a Kevin the teenager - we removed EVERYTHING from his room except his bed, books and clothes. He had to earn all his toys and electric things back with good behaviour and did. I think the shock was enough to get him to realise that his behaviour wasnt acceptable.

Not saying I have any answers but I do have a 'zero tolerance' approach and it works for him. My 6yr old DD on the other hand is another story.

I have removed everything so many times and he has earnt it all back then had it removed earnt it back and so on, that now it has become senseless in doing it as he gets it back after a week of excellent behaviour and then we're back to square one.

The only thing that has even the slightest dent on him is banning him from Dr Who like i did on Saturday

oh ladyevenstar, i feel for you, i do. The removing everything was my piece de resistance and I have nothing else to offer. God knows what i will do in the future.

Oh, actually I resorted back to a sticker chart/chore chart and for him to watch Dr Who and play Wii, x box etc he had to have so many ticks for the day/week. Could you try that?

I think he sees you as the weakest link and knows that he can manipulate you in a way that others just wouldn't have any truck with. Maybe try detaching yourself emotionally from his behaviour and see if that helps you if not him.

big hugs in a non MN way.

I know this sounds like I am putting an obsticle in the way of everything.
I have over the years tried..
sticker/reward charts
penny jars
pasta jars
ignoring
time out
removal
grounding
more freedom
less freedom
banning
no treats
extra treats

and none of them for just a short time iyswim?
when he was 8 DP asked him if he had 3 wishes what would they be...we were hoping he would say eurodisney because we had just booked a holiday there- his answer?
To love my mum
to like my mum
and be able to respect her

Sorry OP I don't have time to read the entire post so sorry if my reponse seems odd or whatnot...

My little brother was EXACTLY like this with my mum. He's now a twenty-one year old idiot with no life. This is because mum didn't take the advice of everyone else and not be dictated to by him. She did not set any boundaries, just stuff like "oh if he ruins the day out, we'll all go home" so I ended up resenting him.

You need to set boundaries with him. You want to ruin the day out? Fine. We'll get on with it then when you get home, I'll remove your XBox/cd player/other object he gets pleasure from for one day until you learn what you did was bad. Does it again? Fine. We'll still enjoy our day out but when we get home, you'll have your XBox removed for TWO days. These deprivation punishments are the most effective. You get to keep control and he loses out on something he values. He is also testing you. Don't let him see that he is upsetting you. Just try and smile but be firm.

I totally understand about the love but not like thing, too.

OP, it must be really frustrating to have given everything a good try and for it not to have worked. No doubt if there were easy solutions you'd have found them long, long ago. Does he have calmer moments? Is he able to articulate what's going on for him? I would echo previous post about getting some support for yourself, if for nothing else then to let off steam.

Cupcakes, what you suggest is exactly what I do, an example was the trip with friends last week during the holidays which he promised to ruin, as it turned out he had a whale of a time.

I removed his phone from him on Saturday and on Sunday when we went out I discovered he had taken it from my bedroom where i had put it and brought it out. Silly of him because he said to my nephew who is 2yrs younger "don't tell my mum i have my phone she said i was't allowed it this weekend" well he told me and I took it back, my mum put it in her bag and when I was busy with DS2 she gave it back to him both my sister and I told her she shouldnt have but then i couldn't get it back from him without him screaming. So when we got home i removed his PS2.

There in itself lies another problem. My mum see's no wrong in what he does, even to the point that when he pushed DN off the fence she defended him and said he hadn't when he had been seen and also DN told us.

I sympathise, Ladyevenstar.

My mother overrules me all the fucking time wrt DS's disciplining. If he cries, then this amounts to child cruelty and must be avoided at all costs. Tell her that she's undermining me and off she flounces. OR she says to DS "no darlng, nanna can't give you a sweetie because mummy will shout at nanny" which infuriates me beyond belief. It's not you can't have a sweetie because you've been naughty, it's you can't have one because BIG BAD mummy will tell ME off as well as YOU, isn't she horrid?

have you asked him why he doesn't love or like or respect you?

tbh, it sounds like he needs to be told why his dad left if thats a main reason for this behaviour, its not ideal to tell him something he doesn't like ie, its because he didn't want you etc, but maybe thats what he needs.

maybe then he will see that actually you wanted him and kept him and do love him, dispite how horrible he has been.
and that you deserve all his respect and more.

tbh i probably couldn't of lasted this long and he would be in someone elses care by now.
so you have all my respect.

the only other thing i can suggest is trying to show no emotion to negative behaviour and almost disipline in a robotic fashion.

and i would tell him that you don't like him at the moment, that you love him, but you really do not like his behaviour and am starting to dislike him more and more because of it.
he needs a big dose of reality

OTTMumma, much to the disgust of some people I have told him why his father is not around. No it is not nice to be told that "Actually he only wanted you for as long as I was with him but when we split up he decided he didn't want to know you" what i did leave off were the amount of times I have recieved text/emails from his father telling me that he would take me back any day as he still loves me .

Basically ex would have me back but is not imterested in DS1 very

And you would have lasted because when you see them sleeping you remember that they are still your babies.

I have in the past said to him "I love you more than anyone ever will but I totally detest the way you behave"
His reply?

"Like i care if you were important i would care"

sorry meant to say I have asked him and his why he behaves this way and he says "because I can and you cannot stop me because I will scream and you hate that"

I might be simplifying things, Lady, but if you stop him doing something and he screams let him damn well scream. If it's in the house, go into another room, turn on radio. if you're out, just let him do it and act nonchalant. If he's eleven, everyone will be gawking at him,not you. He'll feel stupid soon enough.

Don't let him control you like this. It sounds like he knows how to press your buttons and what upsets you. Disarm him by NOT letting it upset you or at least letting him think it doesn't upset you.

So stop his behaviour and let him scream. He will get bored and have a sore throat long before you give in. Stop letting him rule the roost and distance yourself. He is the child, you are the adult.

Print this thread and give it to CAHMS and see what they say.

you are right i know that, i do carry on with my plans and he has been known to just scream but it is the bits that add on with it for example if you look through previous threads the knives, the stealing, the slapping/pushing/punching ds2.

of course i step in then.

I put him in his room or on numerous times i have been known to go to my room like i am the child fgs. but he comes out of his room or follows me into my room.

I will show camhs this hopefully they will have an opinion.