to be angry about failing male friendship...

[lottaluvin]

I had a male best friend for 20 years. We met at Uni. we have travelled round the world together and seen each other through all sorts of sh*te times - redundancy, car accidents, abusive relationships.

When I met my dh and introduced them to each other they became firm friends too. We lived 20 mins away and saw each other 3 times a week.

At the time of us moving away he met a girl online. She refused to believe we were only platonic (how offensive to my husband - also I had a 6 month old baby and was hardly out looking for extra sex - i was wrecked). She has completely closed him off from our relationship.

It's not sour grapes - her entire weekends are filled with her friends and family. It took him 6 weeks to "ask permission" to come on a trip with his old college buddies. By the time he had arranged it with her "busy schedule" the trip had sold out.

He is getting married in Autumn and even though they have a 3yo she has asked for the wedding to be adults only (apart from her dd of course). Only his friends have kids - hers don't. Who will their DD play with?

I can't help feel bitter - she also knows how hard it is for us to leave DC for one night as we have no family nearby.

I miss our relationship - I knew I would go onto the back burner, but I have seen him one in two years. Am I wrong? Do I sound bitter and twisted?

I am really beginning to hate her....

But it's not just her is it? It's his choice.

Hating her isn't going to make her love you any better. It's sad that it looks like your friendship can't be what it was though .

I wouldn't read too much into the child-free wedding though. Pain in the arse (for many) if you've got kids but probably not personal.

I feel for you. I worry every time bf introduces us to one of his gfs that this will happen. On the one hand, we really want him to meet someone he wants to spend the rest of his life with. On the other hand, if she's like that...

I have had this before, friends with a guy since 18 and Im now 35, nothing has ever happened between us we have just ben really good friend, like the brother I never had!
he has also supported me through bad relationships, bad times etc and came to my eventual wedding. the last 2 gf he has had have done the same to me, shut me off and always declined any invitations to parties/nights out etc.
used to text him and say " hey stranger its been months can we meet for a coffee" and he would say its 'difficult' and one GF used to 'hate' me never talked to me and they were together for 3 years! it was ridiculous. I think men are just useless at putting their foot down in these situations and alot of women are pretty insecure

I agree it's not her, it's his choice. Why are you blaming her? He's your friend so why not place the blame on him where it belongs?

I think the child-free wedding is a separate thing to the rest

I have a very similar relationship with my friend. We had a brief fling when I was 18, which ended in weeks, but we stayed friends and travelled together and were in constant contact, we were very simply best friends, nothing else.

I ended up marrying another person from our circle of friendss, he married a girl who didn't know us at all and made it very clear from the start that although she would see others from the group, I wasn't welcome. My friend resisted for a while, but now they're married and have a daughter (as do we) and I very very rarely see my friend.

Recently he went pt to share the care of their daughter, so we've been meeting up occasionally with our girls, it's been lovely to have that relationship back, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't tell his wife that he's seen me, and that makes me very uncomfortable.

I don't really know what my point is, just that I understand! It's frustrating that people can't accept a man and a woman can be geuninely 'just' friends.

I know it's his choice, but she really is overbearing. After being in on/off relationships for almost a decade he acts so grateful that someone wants to commit to him.

I think what makes it worse is that he confides in me about her and as I don't feel too warm about her at the moment it makes me feel more negative...We really did try, we were so excited for him and invited them to lots of things but she is always doing stuff with her friends. It's like his friends don't count for jack.

When you have a friendship with a man, you realise that sometimes they are a bit vague and crap about a lot of stuff, especially when a woman with a 5 year plan marches in and bulldozes a friends life...I'm not the only one feeling this incidentally, we are quite a mixed group from uni and a few people have remarked.

I just don't want it to get worse, I don't want to be rude or negative to her in person, but where his wedding should be a great get together I am now absolutely dreading it....

I can see why you're upset but if you really want to be friends with him then why not work on your relationship with her too? It must be pretty obvious to her that you dislike her so it's no wonder she doesn't want to see you. I think if you invite them both out/round to yours etc and be really friendly to her and genuinely interested in her then she may see you differently.

I'm sure he wouldn't be with her if he didn't love her, so there must be something good about her

The wedding is a red herring, lots of people have childfree ones and it's their choice entirely. Don't make an issue of it. I assume you have plenty of time to arrange a sitter too and have a fun night out without your dc.

Maybe she is like that with everyone and its not personal to you . DH has a male friend whom he has hardly seen since he met his wife. The friends bro and SIL hardly see them, nor do his parents. She just wanted to continue with her life and slot him in without his baggage ie us. Everything that they do is on her terms. She is actually quite good company on the rare occasions we see them but she already has friends and family and doesn't want to make an effort with his 'side'.

she sounds like a controlling cow TBH! She might well be insecure but that is her issue to deal with, why should her DH be banned from having female friends?

Sorry it has affected your relationship with your friend.

It is very sad and I understand why you would be upset to lose his friendship, but surely he is as much to blame for this situation as she is? Actually more so really because you two had a friendship and in effect he has let her get in the way - he could have stood up to her but he didn't, or did he? Sad reality is people move on, priorities change. I have some friends I love dearly that I haven't seen in years. I could blame them, but i appreciate you get wrapped up in partners, kids, families and all of a sudden there are not enough hours in the day. I am just glad they were in my life when they were.

The wedding thing is their choice, their DD will be fine she has all her family nearby, and he would have to be very callous indeed to have made that decision to spite you, which would be very unlikely from the sound of it. Try not to let to pile all your understandable issues on to that one event. He wants you at the most important days of his life, that's a sign your friendship is still important to him.

Jodieo I see your point but this is a very gentle unassuming guy. If a husband was stopping his wife from seeing her friends it would be abusive wouldn't it? You wouldn't blame the wife.

She is very manipulative and he doesn't see it. She talked him into loading themselves with a huge mortgage failing to mention her £80k debt...he had to sell a rental property he spent a year doing up. I've seen it in action we've been out together and she wants something in a shop - she'll put on a stupid kittycat baby voice and keep kissing him fully on the mouth until he gives in....uggh. She harped and harped about a baby and he has been left literally holding it....He's an old fashioned type of guy too so I know he won't give up on a relationship especially with a baby in tow.

As per some of the comments above - I really wanted him to meet Miss Right, I told him to go on the website and give it a shot. It's not as if I don't want him to be happy....just feel like I can see right through her...

I had a rough time with my best friend a few years back, there had been nothing more than a platonic hug between us EVER, yet when he got with the lady who is now his wife she would not, and could not believe that. No matter what either of us said, she would not believe us. She did not like me one bit, would not talk to me, acknowledge me in a group, would have parties inviting the whole crowd (we lived in a smallish town, close knit group) but specifically not inviting me. This was awkward because it put my friends in a difficult position, obviously they wanted to go to parties that the whole crowd were at, but that meant abandoning me to my own devices!

Anyway, it wasn't until after their wedding that she started talking to me. (I was invited to the wedding, I guess it would have been far too un-pc not to invite me.) We all see each other when we're around, and he and I are still pretty close, she and I get on fine but it will never go further than that.

Not sure what my story is meant to say to you OP, sorry about that! Perhaps nothing bar I know how you feel, and it does suck.

and yes i want to shake him for being spineless sometimes....he needs to stop moaning about never seeing us and I need to stop listening.

I think the wedding is just the icing on the cake. He is very sad about it, but she wanted a venue where there was no room or suitability for kids and it's her big day. And I quote that from our last conversation. One friend (another of his female ones)mentioned the fact that kids may distract from the bride a little too much as we would all be very excited about getting our "college" kids all together for the first time. Yes she is entitled to whatever wedding she wants I know, i just find it strange that a couple in their 40's with a DD would want no kids but their own...

Also I really am not awful to her, I send b'day cards, Christmas Cards presents etc, she would never know how I am feeling as we only saw each other fleetingly last summer as she was leaving for a girlie weekend away as i was arriving with DS for a catchup and to meet his DD for the first time...

I'm just not that kind of person, I take it more to heart tbh...I can't do bitchy I'm just speaking from the heart for the first time about this. When other friends try to get a reaction from me I don't normally say anything.

Just enjoying the anonymity I have been afforded by mumsnet....

...and MRSC2010 it was VERY helpful thanks, you know exactly how I feel. Actually you have given me hope, perhaps when the ring is on her finger her insecurities about me will be put to bed.

Sack it off, both your relationship with him and also any attempts with her. It's obviously not working and she feels uncomfortable you two being friends.

No great loss People move on.

Part of the problem is that you can't see it from her side, because she won't confide in you. You're not her friend.

She may:

• feel very insecure because of experiences in her past that you don't know about

• feel excluded from a group of long-term friends with all the shared past, in jokes that entails

• have a partner who waxes lyrical about his female friends (whether he realises or not) and therefore raises the green-eyed monster

• be a complete cow.

It doesn't help that it sounds like your friend is using you as a sounding board. Got to say, if I knew that dh was talking about our relationship to a female friend, especially if maybe things weren't all that rosy, it would make me insecure.

I think I take a different view to most people here.

It sounds like a really hard situation to be in and if I were in your situation I would feel equally upset. She should feel secure in the knowledge that he loves her and not you and she should also accept that you two are friends.

I would give it one more attempt and invite both of them over for dinner. It would be sad to lose 20 years of friendship because his partner does not accept you.

Also, the fact that she is separating him from his friends won't actually make him happy in the long run. To me it sounds like she is very controlling and what she is doing is actually unfair.

No great loss - having someone in your life for 20 years and then never seeing them - you are joking aren't you???

Suzi I am trying to discourage the moaning bit - I certainly don't talk about issues in my marriage to him, even though my DH wouldn't care lol...Strange though if your DH was down the pub discussing his marriage with a male friend it would be a new man positive thing. Why are women so distrustful of other women?

I know she has a lot of insecurities, whenever we talk it's about how much money people earn, how rich and successful all her friends are, what designer shoes she has bought etc. I have seen both sides to life, lived a cash rich London life and a country bumpkin mum-tastic one so I can empathise. I have tried my best to imagine my husband sharing hotel bedrooms with female friends in the past before our relationship but never really get all intense and jealous about the though of him having a friendship with a female.

BTW I'm not looking for an exclusive friendship, us two in the corner making in jokes and giggling, I thought we'd all be mature enough to get together for a picnic etc. with the kids, bbq's things that we do with other couples really.

Perhaps she's too embarrassed by us infront of her super rich friends lol!

You're right Ali, she should. But there are lots of reasons that we don't always behave as we should.

I agree that it would be nice if the op feels she can be the bigger person and continue to try to befriend her friend's partner. But that's difficult if you really don't like them.

I think it may have partly been her insecurity about the fact that we were so close, as against just assuming that something had happened. We had been inseperable, and she knew that as she had been around for a while while before they got together. So obviously she probably felt a little on the outside, of jokes etc, and resentful of the fact that we had such shared history and I was closer to all of his/our friends than she was etc. Didn;t help they all used to joke around about when would we get married etc etc. The difficult thing was that I could and still can understand how she felt, it must have been really hard, but I don't agree with how she dealt with it. The sad thing was that I was excited for them when they got together as they were such an obvious match, and as he was a couple of years older than me I wanted to see him happily paired off!

Got there in the end though.

flippant final statement btw....

i think that often one person in a relationship can be more dominant about how they spend their time and whose friends they see more often.

clearly in his relationship it is his fiance and he bows to her.

you are literally powerless to do anything about this, it's up to him. you have to say to him that you'll be there if he wants to see you but then step back as the ball is in his court. nothing you can do if he won't stand up to her.

I think I'm just going to keep inviting them until it gets embarrassing, or perhaps bypass best mate and tell her to give me a free weekend of her choice, even if it's ridiculously far away...

I will make a pact with my husband to bite our tongues about the money stuff and try to change the subject when it comes up. (He has a v low paid job so i think there's a little overcompensating going on there, but it doesn't matter to our group of friends).

It would be nice if we could turn it around, but if we can't I can't help imagining the scenario will be that she will think his friends can't be all that interested in him anymore and it's probably better for him not to bother with them!

It is hard when you are on the outside of a friendship but if you really want to make a person happy you need to get in to the friendship a bit yourself.

I appreciate the OP doesn't like her (well actually it might be that she would if his fiancee was not so controlling) and I think OP has a good reason to not like her.

DH's best friend is a woman and he had known her for 23 years before I met him. It was a bit hard initially because of the history they have together but she is such a nice person and ultimately it would have been me missing out because I don't think DH would have married me if I hadn't made the effort with her.

IMO he needs to grow a pair and tell her that if she doesn't make the effort then no wedding.