to think teachers are constantly under fire?

[strawberrykate]

The number of negative assumptions about teachers motives, nit-picking over fine details of what they do and the general attitude towards seems to be really poor. They are held up to unusally high-standards and expected to do the impossible it seems.

Imagine the scenario, 30 children, one adult. Each child generates a small mountain of paperwork in the form of marking, reports, assessment and planning needs plus more. Each child has different needs, abilities, fears etc. You are under pressure to teach more hours than you have in the day (really, look up the required number of hours per subject per week, it adds up to more hours than there are in a school week). Average workload outside traching hours (if you do it all decently, but quickly)

• 2 hours per night marking books
• 1 hour a day collecting resources and preparing a class
• 2 hours each for literacy, planning, numeracy, foundation etc. per week
• half hour per day writing up lesson evaluations
• half hour per day with parents/ resolving issues from the day, sending collecting letters and homework feedack etc.
• one afterschool club plus tidying up and preperation/ waiting for kids to be collected 2 hours

That's a basic 58 hour week inc. the 6 hours teaching day.

Then throw in parents evenings/ report writing/ additional long term planning/ after school perfromances/ fetes/ events/ compeitions/ sports matchs/ meetings with outside services/ dealing with larger issues with families and children/ arranging special events or theme weeks/ liasing with outside professionals who come into school/ holiday clubs/ one to one tuition or extra free tutition and the million and one extras like carol concerts or parish events. Which can push the job into occupying every waking moment some weeks.

Then throw the needs of your own family.

Everyone is still shocked when your reports written at midnight have a few typos or you dont pick up or know about every child as well as their parents from memory. You get impromptu meetings where parents are outraged you don't know every level of the top of your head. Every slip of the tongue or small error is analysied to death. Every other year you may even be lucky enough to get a parents peition against you, normally over a misunderstanding (e.g. for banning books in the class was my favourite-I never did find out why they thought I'd done that). Parents gunning for a fight over a missing lunchbox/ coat/ glove, then no apology when it turns up at home or on a sibling.

AIBU to think a bit more courtesy toward teachers and an appreciation of them being human wouldn't go amiss? I've had a range of jobs, retail, law etc, and I've never been in ajob where so quick are people to attack. Even the national media has teachers and schools as a favourite gripe, rarely a week goes by where I don't see a report which boils down to saying teachers are either a bit thick/ lazy/ uncaring/ money-grabbing.

I really love working with kids and seeing the difference I can make, and I think I have done well by hundreds of children who have passed though my care. The constant, and increasing, habit of expecting teacher to be no less than saints is really pissing me off! It's huge factor as to why decent teachers leave the profession, often leaving ones who simply don't care/ can't find other work.

caz- I'm 34 weeks pregnant and finding them trickier than usual, my brain is mush from tiredness.

There's a reason why some parents are angry:
from MN news
'Children with autism 'unfairly excluded': Many children are at risk of being unfairly excluded from school because their autism is mistaken for naughtiness, according to new research from the Institute of Child Health. Teachers at 16 primary schools were asked about 26 children who had been excluded or were at risk of exclusion, and nine of them were found to have autism.'

YANBU can't believe what people say about teachers on mumsnet.

I don't think there is much wrong with children in general, and I don't think groups of people should be blamed. I am merely pointing out that it is untrue that teachers are constantly being blamed.

So if there is negative feelings towards teachers, it is not being driven by the media. We need to look as a whole society as to why people feel negatively towards teachers. Teachers have to participate in that too, and think about how they could improve public perceptions and relationships with families.

Yabu. For every 1 person whose default mode is to blame the teacher I bet there are 9 others who, like me, recognise that it is a difficult job and are grateful for all the effort made by teachers make in educating my children. I have never once made a formal, informal or gossipy complaint about a teacher or started or contributed in any way to a "teacher bashing" thread on Mumsnet. I can't imagine I am that unusual.

cornsilk - yes the teachers should have diagnosed them themselves? Drawing on knowledge from their medical degrees? Lucky all teachers are specialists in all areas of child developemnt and we get training on autism and every other possible disability/ learning needing possible and are allowed to diagnose children. Really.

If their parents have missed it what hope does a teacher have of spotting it in a class of 30? Austic spectrum or misbehaviour that means the dc is throwing pencils/ harming others? Afraid that needs a SPECIALIST (and so it should). Most the children with autism I have worked with were diagnosed after early concerns raised by parents with GPs or by approaching the school. It's certainly a very very difficult judgement to make. I think schools do a fantastic job of supporting autistic pupils overall and do wonders with limitd resources and support (e.g. 2 years wait for ed pysch appointments). A combination of better support from outside agencies and higher parental contribution I bet would hae helped many of these kids earlier on.

Milly - I'd be interested to learn what you think teachers should do to improve public perception. Apart from teaching well planned lessons, ensuring that all the students in my classes achieve the best grades they are capable of, nurturing their interests and talents, putting on extra-curricular trips and activities, writing, emailing and phoning parents when they wish to speak to me, or if I need to speak to them, dressing in a professional way, smiling if I see them in the street/supermarket, always addressing parents and students in a calm, polite and respectful manner, I'm at a loss as to how I can best promote myself.

Tsssk EvilTwins. Why have you not stuck a broom up your bum in order to sweep the classroom? Slacker.

I don't feel particularly bashed, as a teacher, on a day to day basis. Occasionally I feel the profession gets an undeserved kicking on here.

I don't know how teachers can change this perception. I suspect many problems come from the nature of the role due to government interference and poor school management. But schools and teachers should be able to have some ideas on this negativity because they are most familiar with where tensions and clashes are arising.

MilyR said:"Can I also add, that shockingly two thirds of children cannot tell a frog from a toad. The parents fault apparently, for not taking their children to safari parks. "

The is no real difference between frogs and toads. (check out allaboutfrogs.org)

Strawberry kate - That is an example of why some (not all) parents are angry. The Lamb enquiry also refers to similar issues. Most parents moan for a reason - they love their kids and want what's best for them and sometimes they get a bit emotional about it. As I've said -teachers are in the front line. If parents don'tknow who to complain to about something they will moan at the teacher. At the end of the day everyone wants the same thing -what's best for the children.

I was thinking along the same lines EvilTwins. You've forgotten to mention also the parents meetings, coffee mornings in school, skills clubs for parents, the open invitation to help out on trips and readong with children and taking part in fetes etc to bring the whole famiy into school and make it a welcoming community school. Oh possibly even cheap childcare after school and holiday schemes and clubs to support bust parents. So little of this though is taken up, often seen in fact as bothering parents.

I feel that some of the problem has been schools bending over backwards a bit to far in recent years taking on responsibilities they didn't have in the past and providing extended services. Schools are now seen as trying to provide everything and failing if they don't cover every aspect of a child's life.

For example, one of the threads on here is about a child being picked up by another parent. When I was young and also when I first started teaching this would have been seen as a parental duty to be present and pick a child up at the correct time, phoning the school if they were to be late and making sure their child was drilled in stranger safety. There was no concept of books to sign to collect children or teachers not being able to rely on common sense. If another normal mum or dad whose child was friends with another stated they would be picking a child up it would be seen as reasonable. I remember being released from the classroom door to run to waiting parents at the gate with teachers hovering for those who couldn't see anyone at the gate. I once when home with another child to their house without telling my mother, I was in HUGE trouble and she was VERY cross with the other parent for not telling her ut I don't think she even mentioned it to the teacher.

cornsilk- I've said it before though, people want the best for their children but I do think the attitude turns good teachers away from the profession in significant numbers. The constant picking and moaning at teachers is not seving the goals they want at all. Something to think about.

Oh well ignore me then and ignore mine and others eminently sensible, calm and rational posts on the picking someone else's child up thread. You just see what you want to see, why don't you?

SK -I have seen it (and have experienced it)in some schools and not in others. I really do think that the management of the school makes a big difference to how teachers are perceived by parents.

bibbity bobbity - is that to me?

No.

What is the difference between 'extended schools' and out of school clubs?

Teachers are paid too much!

----------------

I'm fed up with teachers and their hefty salary guides! What we need is a little perspective.

If I had my way, I'd pay these teachers myself I'd pay them babysitting wages. That's right instead of paying these outrageous taxes, I'd give them $3.00 an hour out of my own pocket. And I'm only going to pay them for 5 hours, not coffee breaks. That would be $15.00 a day -- each parent should pay $15.00 a day for these teachers to babysit a child. (Even if you have more than one child, it's still a lot cheaper than private day care.)

Now, how many children do they teach every day maybe twenty? That's $15.00 X 20 = $300 a day. But remember they only work 180 days a year! I'm not going to pay them for all those vacations! That's $300 X 180 =$54,000. (Just a minute that can't be right; let me check my calculator.)

I know what you teachers will say What about those who have ten years experience and a Master's degree? Well, maybe (to be fair) they could get the minimum wage instead of just babysitting, they could read the kids a story.

We can round that off to about $5.00 an hour, times five hours, times twenty children. That's $500 a day times 180 days. That's $90,000 ..... HUH??

Wait a minute; let's get a little perspective here! Babysitting wages are too good for these teachers. Does anyone see a salary guide around here?

No- I didn't read the whole thread, it's an example of how school's have changed and taken on additional resposnibiity. All schools now have systems of picking children up. I'm not interested in the rights or wrongs of that individual case, merely making the point that schools in general have taken on a huge amount of responsibility onto themselves which did not exist even 10 years ago. The onus is hsifting towards schools being reposnsible for more and more aspects of a childs life, even in areas such as diet, fitness and what they do in the holidays. As a parent I view these areas as my responsibility, in fact I often resent the school wasting learning time on some of this crap. I think some of the issue i schools taking over the roles of parents, and some people have come to expect thi which causes problems as the school cannot realistically fulfil all duties.

ha ha
I'm quite happy with what I get paid but a little more would always be nice!

SK -I agree about the diet/fitness crap. Waste of time.

Perhaps the problem lies with your children not having a clear distinction between teachers and out of school club staff?

Schools have taken on more responsibilities, but they have also usually taken on out of school club co-ordinators and play workers. So schools taking on more is not the same as that responsibility going to teachers.

I don't think anyone in society other than the government wants teachers taking responsibility for health, fitness, creative play, performing arts, ethics, religion and so on.

BoneyBackJefferson, that made me smile. I don't actually think the pay is that bad, though the teaching adverts for earning 35k annoy me. There was an advert for teaching that the TDA were made to withdraw by advertising standards. It showed a very young teacher and had the slogan 'earn £35,000'.
To earn this at the time of the advert the teacher would need 6 years experience plus extra salary for additional responsibility in the school! Even with Inner London weighting it was just above the top of the teaching scale. Outside London the top point on the teachers payscale is 30k. Student teachers I bet had a bit of shock when they realised their first years pay was under 20k in most areas. The 35k figure banded about in the media is well off the average class teacher's pay, in the case of a young teacher 15k off.

tiggyd - is it something to do with teeth - having and not having, can't remember which way round it is (must go to more safari parks)