to think teachers are constantly under fire?

[strawberrykate]

The number of negative assumptions about teachers motives, nit-picking over fine details of what they do and the general attitude towards seems to be really poor. They are held up to unusally high-standards and expected to do the impossible it seems.

Imagine the scenario, 30 children, one adult. Each child generates a small mountain of paperwork in the form of marking, reports, assessment and planning needs plus more. Each child has different needs, abilities, fears etc. You are under pressure to teach more hours than you have in the day (really, look up the required number of hours per subject per week, it adds up to more hours than there are in a school week). Average workload outside traching hours (if you do it all decently, but quickly)

• 2 hours per night marking books
• 1 hour a day collecting resources and preparing a class
• 2 hours each for literacy, planning, numeracy, foundation etc. per week
• half hour per day writing up lesson evaluations
• half hour per day with parents/ resolving issues from the day, sending collecting letters and homework feedack etc.
• one afterschool club plus tidying up and preperation/ waiting for kids to be collected 2 hours

That's a basic 58 hour week inc. the 6 hours teaching day.

Then throw in parents evenings/ report writing/ additional long term planning/ after school perfromances/ fetes/ events/ compeitions/ sports matchs/ meetings with outside services/ dealing with larger issues with families and children/ arranging special events or theme weeks/ liasing with outside professionals who come into school/ holiday clubs/ one to one tuition or extra free tutition and the million and one extras like carol concerts or parish events. Which can push the job into occupying every waking moment some weeks.

Then throw the needs of your own family.

Everyone is still shocked when your reports written at midnight have a few typos or you dont pick up or know about every child as well as their parents from memory. You get impromptu meetings where parents are outraged you don't know every level of the top of your head. Every slip of the tongue or small error is analysied to death. Every other year you may even be lucky enough to get a parents peition against you, normally over a misunderstanding (e.g. for banning books in the class was my favourite-I never did find out why they thought I'd done that). Parents gunning for a fight over a missing lunchbox/ coat/ glove, then no apology when it turns up at home or on a sibling.

AIBU to think a bit more courtesy toward teachers and an appreciation of them being human wouldn't go amiss? I've had a range of jobs, retail, law etc, and I've never been in ajob where so quick are people to attack. Even the national media has teachers and schools as a favourite gripe, rarely a week goes by where I don't see a report which boils down to saying teachers are either a bit thick/ lazy/ uncaring/ money-grabbing.

I really love working with kids and seeing the difference I can make, and I think I have done well by hundreds of children who have passed though my care. The constant, and increasing, habit of expecting teacher to be no less than saints is really pissing me off! It's huge factor as to why decent teachers leave the profession, often leaving ones who simply don't care/ can't find other work.

Riven, it's when you compare the pay compared to other jobs requiring an eqivalent level of study. The bare minimum for teaching is 3 years university and 1 year post grad. 3000 x 4 = £12,000 debt in fees, which easily doubles to 24k when you factor in the cost of living (this is for someone who's pretty careful!). Telegraph reckons averages debt is £23K after a three year course. That's A LOT of debt to begin your working life with. I earned the same money as a clothing manager in Tesco during a gap year between uni/ professional law exams and teacher training as I did as an NQT. A job which required no student debt at all. Many NQTs struggle with debt before they even begin a working life. It's a very big hole to dig yourself out of and can be a real bar to starting a family life. I was lucky to work all the way through uni, many older teachers were lucky enough to not pay fees or have grants. I do feel sorry for the teachers qualifying nowadays.

Not all professions that study for 4+ years are paid more than teachers though. Don't speech and language therapists study for 4/5 years? They are paid about the same as teachers I think.

Riven, I am earning a very decent salary- yet if I didn't have a HA flat, I could not afford to live in London, let alone near my school. The HA are even trying to sell off their keyworker housing (my flat included ).

This problem of massively inflated house prices affects everybody; soon cities will start to feel the pinch as essential workers move away in droves.

My point is that although I earn a decent salary, I cannot afford to buy a flat in the city which I work. I am not saying that this is a position unique to teaching, far from it- the fact that so many other people are in the same position does not 'normalise' the problem- it just shows how bad it is.

In other words, knowing that thousands of others are in the same position as me makes me more, not less, angry.

Not all cornsilk, I'm just talking about a comparison to the average. Some obviously get less even.

tethersend-or they end up like my authority with an average age of a teacher being 28! The average teacher stays in the borough 2 years before moving away. The NQTs live in uni-style house shares and rented poor quality housing. There get tired after a few years and move to an area where they can live better. I saw these statistics at a leadership conference for the borough and it blew me away. I did then realise on returning to school that 6 of our 8 teachers were 25 or under and all the teachers bar two were NQTs or in their first year after. Our turn over is amazing (normal 50% per year) with newly qualified teachers dispersing all over this country/ Ireland after their training and as soon as they find a job elsewhere.

Whereabouts is your school, strawberrykate?

Large city, deprived area.

It just sounded similar to my borough- it contains mostly young teachers as you describe or older teachers nearing retirement. Most teachers with children end up moving away.

It's a cluster of boroughs which border with very similar issues with a very highnumber of institutions churning out trainiees from far afield (Ieland and NE mainly)

All of our young staff (that's about 20% of the total) have debts of £20K+ each. They are now paying that back with interest. I really don't know when they will ever manage it.

One girl is living with her bf - she's a teacher, he's a journalist (both v respectable jobs) with combined uni debts of £43k!!

43K-ouch. Make's me realise my husband and I were lucky to come to this country with nothing! It's a better start than many get!

Do teachers get a harder time in the private system? I mean in primary. Do parents feel they can put pressure on the teacher because they are paying for it? Someone told me that and I'd like to know if it is true.

From the list

I've done

Cleaner
social worker
nurse
in fact anyone who works nights/shifts /bank holidays/weekends/Christmas/Easter
factory worker
shop worker
call centre personnel
lorry driver
sewage worker

Some as part of teaching.

Funny how some people say that teachers should get a proper job before they teach.

-Have been a cleaner in my student days, found it very satisfying.
-Cousin is a lorry driver and earns x3 my salary
-Relatives are nurses, SIL an auxiliary on nights and aunt is a senior nurse practitioner earns 43K, she runs medical tests and works in theatre but it's not stressful overall (has occasional moments) and the hours are regular.

But interesting that the jobs deemed worse by one poster require no qualifications, deal with bodily fluids or mean dying for your country! And next comes teaching in that list?? Was actually hoping for something a bit more positive!

Yes, teaching can be tough, am working bloody silly hours, not just through the evenings after the children are in bed but through the holidays as well, but that reflects the certain school I'm in and SMT - it's that level of tiredness that's getting to me and many of my colleagues. Dh certainly doesn't do this, although he's done revision classes today in his holiday. His stresses are different and infrequent: the last pupil to threaten dh, after being challenged for his behaviour towards other pupils and staff, was murdered last year in criminal tit-for-tat violence and another of his ex-pupils, only young, who also tried to attack dh is doing life for stabbing another boy. But both dh and I like the classroom teaching and the pupils, tis the best part of the job by miles.

What makes a ?good? lesson?

Then Jesus took his disciples up the mountain and gathered them around him. He taught them saying:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God.

Blessed are the meek.

Blessed are they that mourn.

Blessed are the merciful.

Blessed are they that thirst for justice.

Blessed are you when you are persecuted.

Blessed are you when you suffer.

Be glad and rejoice for your reward is great in heaven."

And James said "are we supposed to know this?"

And Simon Peter said "will we have a test on this?"

And Phillip said "I don't have any paper."

And Bartholomew said "do we have to spell correctly?"

And Mark said "do we have to hand this in?"

And John said "the other disciples didn't have to learn this."

And Matthew said "may I go to the toilet?"

Then one of the Pharisees who was present asked to see Jesus' lesson plan and inquired of Jesus:

"Where are your learning and assessment objectives?

What range of teaching strategies did you draw from?

Did you provide a differentiated provision?

Can I see a cross section of pupils work?

And Jesus wept.

I love that

I work in an RC school, that can go on the noticeboard.

Jobs I had before teaching inc summer jobs and regular work:
Checkout operator (4 years)
Fishmonger/
Butcher
Charity worker (outdoors, winter)
Clothing manager
Fruit picker
Bag packer
Telesales
Street cleaning (summer only)
Shop assistant newsagents

So many as often ended up resigning during exam periods as couldn't get time off then finding a new job after. I worked full time on top of university.

Street cleaning was actually a favourite I found, very good pay for slowly wandering through the city getting a tan.

I missed out the main job I had, so busy listing all the little ones:

Trainee solicitor/ solicitor

I taught in London and had to leave when I wanted children.

I was contacted by a school in London that I had spent some time as a student teacher at practically offering me a job but I had to say no as we just could not afford to live there.

Schools in inner cities need good teachers, without blowing my own trumpet I am a bloody good teacher who would love to be able to teach in London. But I could not afford to live. When we lived in Lancashire my wage was a good one, we owned our own home and lived a good life. I now earn slightly less but live down south and we are struggling to buy down here.

It is a complete mystery how anyone affords to live in London.

I still fail to understand why anyone would think that teaching wasn't a 'real' job, or in the 'real' world. How can it be anything but 'real'? I say that as a career changer from 'industry'.

MrsC - Forgive me if I am wrong - but have you changed career from something else to teaching? I am currently thinking about making the transition into teaching from "industry". I would welcome input from someone that has prviously made a simialr move. If you have I will start a new thread or let you have my email addy as I would welcome a discussion with someone that has been through that transition. (or anyone else on this thread for that matter that has undergone such a transition)

YANBU You also forgot to add in INSET days + the hours spent incorporating the latest research/Govt Target/Head Teacher's hobby horse into your lesson plans/teaching resources. Nor the preparation and endless revision and improvement of teaching resources. Nor the hours spent dealing with behavioural issues, chasing up detentions or sanctions, speaking to parents, ringing/writing home about behavioural issues. Or speaking to social workers/probation officers/police/housing/social services.

Not to mention the parents who have read something on the internet that explains why their PFB finds it impossible to sit still or follow a simple instruction and that must be the cause, it has nothing to do with never having been set boundries at home.

Or the parents who call you to ask (I kid you not) how to deal with their child who is staying out late and swearing at them when they come home (Stop funding their drug habit perhaps?)

Or how about the hours spent calmly explaining to parents and students that the reason they got an E at GCSE was not because you "didn't teach them" but possibly because the student only turned up to class occasionally and when they did grace your class with their presence they performed until they were removed. And that yes you did ring them and yes you did send letters home and then you spend some time digging out the copies and records of the calls/letters to prove it.

And we haven't even touched on the extra paperwork when OFSTED makes it's menancing approach.