Hating the middle/upper classes

[Ryoko]

I was brought up on a council estate, my dad worked full time, we got some benefits.

Work is hard to find (1 in 3 people in London is unemployed) the unskilled can't even get a job flipping burgers because the Uni educated are clogging up the jobs market.

Is it wrong for me to hate the upper/middle classes?

I live in a private rented accommodation now with my other half, we both work full time
and we will need state help to pay for the baby to go to nursery or to support me to stay at home.

All I hear from the middle/upper class is insults aimed at those on benefits or in council housing or just plain working class, calling us all scroungers, work shy, underclass etc, they seem convinced that living on benefits is great the poor are poor because they are lazy and are sponging off of them and that the poor should not be allowed to have kids if they need help from the tax payer to bring them up.

while moaning about how there tax money is given to the underclass they don't bat an eyelid at running multiple cars, jetting off on holidays, think that owning a home is a right not a privilege and spend obscene amounts of money on fashion, gadgets and the like.

Am I wrong to hate them as much as they hate us?

Do the middle / upper class no longer see the working class as the salt of the earth people because political correctness has stopped them blaming societies ills on other groups so the poor working class is the last easy target for them?.

Ryoko, I sympathise with what you say but there is a point to be made that most of the middle classes that you refer to are actually also squeezed and they get no help from the government.

A family who earns, lets say for argument, £50k per year will take home approx £2,800 pm. Out of that council tax is paid; mortgage and bills (because they have to pay for somewhere to live) and actually once you take all that into account, there is not very much money to spend on luxuries (assuming that you have a family to support).

You have made a huge sweeping generalisation. Most middle classes don't hate lower classes and of the people I know most people are sympathetic to people who have genuine problems finding employment. However, for every middle class person who assumes that everyone on benefits is a scrounger, there is probably one person on a council estate who is a scrounger.

was there one

Ok. Firstly, to be fair, if you read your OP back whilst not explicitly saying you are struggling you certainly imply it. You also mention how when the baby comes you'll need state help.

Can you not see how your post got peoples backs up? You made quite a few sweeping generalisations. Firstly your 1 in 3 comment which when you think about it can only be ridiculous. Secondly, you imply that all graduates are wealthy or come from wealthy backgrounds. This is simply not true. Of course it is easier to go into higher ed if your parents can support you but every year thousands of kids from poorer backgrounds head off to uni.

You also suggest that everyone who is not struggling is rich. Again not the case. The vast majority of people in this country are just getting by, paying their mortgage, trying to save unsuccessfully etc.

The other one is that those you perceive as the 'haves' are always complaining about their taxes supporting the 'have nots'. Again not the case. I for one hold quite strong views about supporting those in society unable to support themselves whether than be short or long term. This forum is littered with comfortably off people who hold those same sentiments.

"So what is it you think you will be getting insulted for when your baby arrives? I don't understand."

Being on benefits, I will need benefits to pay for a nursery place if I return to work or for me to stay at home with the baby if I don't.

If you mean WTC, then I'm not sure Ive ever heard much insulting going on over claiming that. Other than insulting the Treasury when they systematically fuck it up.

This is the best class thread I have seen in a long time

I think the OP has a point. And I would be very middle class. I don't hate you but I know a lot of my peers are very sneery of w/c people, whether they work or not. It is part f the m/c culture and those who deny it are not being totally truthful.

And I agree with the OP that it is very hard to get out of the poverty trap. And blaming individuals is a very naive and thoughtless tact...............'success' consists of many many factors, most of which are beyond individual control

But personally, I'm going to excuse you cause everybody needs to rant even if they do sound unreasonable plus you're pregnant and the weather says high winds and possible snow again. Just don't mix meat with friut!

AliGrylls

I think the divide between what counts as working class, middle class and upper class is different to different people, there are plenty of people calling themselves middle class who are working class and vice versa.

brogan2
Whats dumb about 1 in 3 in London, there are a lot of people commuting into London to work who don't live here, a lot of people on New Deal, a lot of people in other training and the like.

On the estate my parents live on over 80% of the tenants do not work.

If you hold strong views that the haves should support the have nots, I have no problem with you I am complaining about the people on forums and the like who are greedy and self centered thinking the NI they pay is purely to support them when they get old or sick and need treatment and should be saved in a pot with there name on it.

Ladyblablah, do you feel you had a MC upbringing? Do you think that makes a difference? You see I grew up on a nationally notorious council estate. Kids filthy with no shoes etc.

Now I live in an affluent part of the country in a nice house with a high income.

Hand on heart, I can honestly say I do not look down on someone just because they would be considered WC or poor.

I am very well aware (through work) how poor the working poor in this country can be.

v. m/c upbringing

I have been educated about prejudice and class divisions and their impact, however I still recognise some prejudice in me, and even more in my peers.

Just being honest.

I think the OP is right

And yet I genuinely think the OP is wrong. That she's making sweeping generalisations about how others think.

Of course I judge too esp those healthy young parents I come into contact with who have no desire to train, to gain skills, to come benefits. I know it's not easy but it is possible.

I don't make sweeping judgements on a group collectively known as 'the poor' or 'the WC' though. IME there is too many complexities within that group of people to lump them together.

come off benefits.

wish I could be bothered to read whole thread

but am going to plump for YABU because hate is just too strong a word when you what you mean is envy

oh, and kiss my tax bracket

(that is a joke though as think will run at loss this year )

OP I kind of know where you're coming from as I was "lower" working class, my values still are, but got a degree now so aren't considered it any more. The discrimination wears you down after a while. Not everyone thinks like it though, although I only mix with middle class people at uni there are some different opinions on Mumsnet. A lot of women on here are on benefits and are lovely, while some have their heads stuck up their arses and are rude and nasty, because they are "the taxpayer". These are the ones you can feel free to flame to hell

You say no matter where you live you'd never look down on the poor. Good on you. I've moved to a "better" area but am Tottenham all the way. I'm happy to say I mix with so called chavs.

H0w can you claim a whole chunk of society hates you, and that you hate them? Surely you should see people as individuals and take them as you actually find them when you come across them?

No one part of society is better or worse than the other. And within each segment of society there are good and not so good people.

Why go through life hating groups of people anyway? Surely such a negative outlook is bad for your own soul.

can I pass you this

I grew up on a really dodgy council estate. I really don't get the negatively you claim w/c people recieve all the time.

People get defensive. When I was in a council homeless hostel I used to hate all the smiley middle classes going back to their proper houses with their liberal DH's who actually worked. They campaigned to get our hostel closed because apparently our domestic violence and drug problems lowered the tone of their road.
Fucking arseholes

Gawd, the whole English class system makes my head hurt (says a foreigner).
Is "class" real, or is it merely a construct for people to hang their prejudices on?

Seems to me most of OP's complaints are inevitable consequences of the capitalist system -- so is it 'class' or economics?

What "class" are people like John Prescott & Gus O'Donnell, anyway? Or are they convenient to ignore coz they don't encourage the 'working' class to polish the chips on their shoulders?