to think that my DD has a right to a secular education

[Tinnitus]

Two years ago my DD came home to tell EXP and Me about the "true meaning of Christmas". We are both atheists and had purposely sought out a non religious school and so we were perplexed. We took every opportunity to explain that this story was just that, a story, not the literal truth.

Inevitably DD soon started on about the true meaning of Easter and so I made an appointment to see the headmistress of her school. By the time of the appointment I had learned from DD that it was a classroom helper who was feeding her this guff and not a teacher, and I felt a quiet word would suffice.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that not only was the helper indoctrinating DD, but the local evangelical church held monthly assemblies with the children. Indeed it turns out that every school in the country must be affiliated with a church of some type, but is not obliged to brand themselves thus. The head mistress was courteous and obliging and agreed to my request that the brainwashing of DD stop. I made no demands about her education other than She does not come home spouting twaddle.

Two years on and she is beginning to again to talk about Heaven, Hell, God and the Devil. But she has no idea who Adam and Eve were. When I "tactfully" quizzed her about this I discover a local CofE vicar has been regularly talking to the children about his faith, but without emphasizing that it is only his own opinion. Worse still, He has had my DD praying in class.

I have asked the school to live up to their earlier agreement as calmly as I could.

AIBU

Claig in that case should I obey god if he suggests I act a certain way? given that I can't be sure it's him?

do you really know if someone loves you, or do you believe that they love you? Many people find out that the person they thought loved them, didn't really.

Claig - at least a metric fuck ton of people teach religion as a fact.
All Catholics, all Muslims, all Church of England (ok - MOST C of E) for starters.

They don't go around saying, "We believe this, they believe that. Who is right? We just don't know!"

Ah, Claig, you are in danger of falling into the cartesian descent into uncertainty.

If you believe in God enough then your behaviour will be transformed and you won't have as much choice in how you behave. You will be guided towards that path.

Ah now onagar - Mgr Lamaitre was a Roman Catholic - not as bible-based as other denominations.

And where you would say lying, others would say allegory. I doubt Lamaitre ever used the work "lie" at any rate.

the OP states

"I discover a local CofE vicar has been regularly talking to the children about his faith, but without emphasizing that it is only his own opinion."

it is his faith, not a fact, he believes it so it is his opinion. He is instructing the child in the tenets of the Christian faith. But it is not a fact, it is only a faith.

ooojimaflip, I think they are all adherents of different faiths. They believe their faith is correct and the other faiths are wrong, but they are not sure. It is only what they believe. They then worship according to their beliefs. Sometimes they change their beliefs and convert from one faith to another.

Well I'm thinking if god tells me to take my son onto the waste ground behind my flat and kill him tonight I need to know if I should follow my faith or not.

Lots of Christians rubbish the bible. They say "oh its metaphor/mistranslations etc" so you have to get what god wants from you via faith. But if faith is indistinguishable from mental illness then how can you rely on it?

Your point about guidance sounds like removing free will, but uf you mean it's just a strong push to act then you still have to know if you are supposed to be resisting it or going along with it.

Sorry this thread seems to have become yet another debate on the merits or otherwise of religion. My DCs go to a Catholic school -- my choice, and I pay. I'm appalled that the multi-cultural UK can't see the need for separation of church and state in education. The US manages this very successfully.

"Well I'm thinking if god tells me to take my son onto the waste ground behind my flat and kill him tonight I need to know if I should follow my faith or not."

God won't tell you that. God created your son. If you thought that then you would be mentally ill. If we believed in the devil, then it would be the devil who would say that to you.

I don't believe the Bible literally, but I believe in God. Faith is distinguishable from mental illness, they are not the same thing.

I think that free will becomes restricted after you have made some decisions. At the beginning everything is open, once you set off down a path the choices you are able to make become narrower. If you believe then you will be inspired and enthused and this will form many of your opinions and actions and will guide you and therefore your free will will have been curtailed as you set off down a path.

You can never know what you are supposed to do, you can only do what you believe is right. Life is a journey without a map, you have to choose your path, and you may make the wrong choices.

piscemoon - MILLIONS of people believe in the literal truth of Noahs Ark. JW's, Fundamentalist Christians, Orthodox Jews, Fundamentalist Muslims. There are 7 million of the JW's alone.

Claig - so you're not going to make any testable assertions, or predictions, and you are going to dismiss everyone who SAYS that God is a fact by saying they don't really mean that , they just beleive it.

Well I'm paraphrasing the story of Abraham from the bible of course where god told him to kill his son. Quite a lot of people would think it was true.

"Faith is distinguishable from mental illness, they are not the same thing"

That's what I'm asking. HOW is it?. How can you know?

Claig - have you considered a career in politics?

in fact can ANY religious person tell me how to tell the difference.

there is nothing testable about religion, there are no facts. It is all belief. That is why it is tough to believe, that is why it is a test of your faith. If God were to come down and show you that He exists then your belief in Him would be worth nothing. Your belief is worth something precisely because you are not sure and yet you still choose to believe.

Claig - AH the Douglas Adams hypothesis.

ooojimaflip, no they are all liars

faith in what?

If the bible is not a reliable source and internal urges are not a reliable source then you have nothing to be faithful to.

The sound of one hand clapping?

I think you'd be a natural.

I feel like Paxman talking to Howard when I'm talking to you half the time

blows kiss

The difference between faith and mental illness? No idea. Was discussing this with my AS Psychology students the other day in fact. We were using some materials that used quite a lot of examples of religious activities to look at definitions and models of psychological abnormalities. It was very interesting. They decided it depended very much on definition...

onagar, how do you know that it is not a mental illness not to believe in God? You don't know. I am sure that one day in communist societies they will line up a bunch of psychiatrists and tell people that belief in God is a mental illness. But they will never be able to extinguish it, and old ladies in Russia will still be brave enough to light candles and pray to God, whatever the butchers threaten them with.

" Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen it to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book Well That About Wraps It Up For God."

is being madly in love a mental illness or is it the height of existence and feeling?

ooojimaflip I don't understand the AH in
"AH the Douglas Adams hypothesis."