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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to shop someone who is screwing the benefits system?

101 replies

ilikeyoursleeves · 25/03/2010 20:13

Not sure what to do here but this situation is making me increasingly angry. My sister and her DP don't work and both are taking the benefits system for a complete ride. My sister has barely ever worked consistently (she usually lasts a few months before she chucks it), even though she is totally capable of it. My parents have doled her out lots of times and now she is with her DP who pays for everything (from money he mainly gets from his mum, even though he is in his mid 40's). My sister however continues to claim benefits and apparantly has kept on her old council flat and gets income that way (I have no idea how though, I only heard that through her DP when they had temporarily separated last year). She has that benefits entitlement syndrome going on eg, I asked her if she was returning to work after her having her DD and her reply was 'Why should I?'.

Her DP has been off his work for months now with a 'shoulder & back injury' that he got from working on roadworks. He has applied for compensation and says he is hoping to get at least £100k . If his injury was 100% genuine then fair enough, but for months he has been doing manual work on the sly, throwing his DD up in the air, doing housework and apparantly he is now working on a building site for cash in hand! He gloats all the time that his court case is coming up and how much money he might get, with a wink as he knows he is taking the system for a ride.

I have been an honest taxpayer for my whole working life and TBH I am getting to seething point about my sister and her DP. DH and I work, and have always worked, and I just think why are we doing this while others squeeze the state dry when they don't need to! I just think it would be so unfair if they get money that would take us years to earn, from them talking absolute bullshit and being totally dishonest.

So I am tempted so say something to someone but don't know who.

What do you think I should do?

OP posts:
JuJusDad · 25/03/2010 23:02

It will be in the terms of the tenancy - you can have a lodger, but the property must be your main place of residence.

The longest you can be away from it and still be entitled to Housing Benefit is 13 weeks (unless hospitalised).

Given that OP's sister doesn't work, it would be a reasonable assumption that she gets Housing Benefit for the coucil property, and then gets a chunk of cash from her tenant who is actually occupying it.

TBB - if you, your partner, or your friends and family work, then it is all of you that are being stolen from, as it is their taxes which are funding this.

JuJusDad · 25/03/2010 23:07

so, to answer TBB's question, at a guess the following benefits are being fraudulently claimed:

Income Support and / or Job Seekers Allowance, Employment Support Allowance (new version of Incapacity Benefit, as sister's partner is "unable to work" due to "injury"), and Housing Benefit.

There will also be a level of Child Tax Credit which is being fraudulently claimed.

If they were in my neck of the woods, that would add up to something in the region of, oh, around £170 per week.

GypsyMoth · 25/03/2010 23:10

Can I sublet my home?

If you have a Scottish Secure Tenancy or a Short Scottish Secure Tenancy, you can sublet all or part of your home but only if you have our permission in writing.

from Moray councils website.....of course you have to meet their conditions,but its possible

as for op's sister,she has worked previously a few jobs,so she doesnt seem work shy....i wouldnt assume anything

not enough info given....no details of benefits she claims....just the word of the malicious ex really

GypsyMoth · 25/03/2010 23:13

dont underestimate the doctors who assess the ESA. not as easy as it used to be

if they claimed all of that i would say it would be MORE than £170 a week though

JuJusDad · 25/03/2010 23:35

Fair point, TBB.

I was talking from pov of English council tenancies - I have no experience of Scottish ones.

But I can say that our council does not allow for sublets in any way, and since (as pointed out by another poster) there's a nationwide anti-sublet campaign, I'm guessing it's the same across England.

RomillyJane · 25/03/2010 23:49

yanbu.

I would shop them, one reason why the country is in a mess is because of bloody scroungers

messymissy · 26/03/2010 08:41

given that you think your parents wouldnt feel they have to step in and help your sister pay back the money then I would shop them.

I worked for 18 years full time paid horrendous amounts of tax and ni I have lived off my savings and now that I dont have any I need help. I have been amazed and stressed by the hoops i have had to jump through inorder to claim any benefits at all and it aggravates me that fraudulent claimers make it harder for the rest of us. All I need is a little help until I can work but its been so tough and stressful.

porcamiseria · 26/03/2010 09:25

i would never shop my family

GeekOfTheWeek · 26/03/2010 09:52

YANBU

They are stealing.

Theiving sods.

thehillsarealive · 26/03/2010 10:04

i need more details before i can give a proper opinion, but my immediate reaction is that I would never shop my sister.

But - the compensation claim could be completely bogus or it could be genuine.
I have a bad back and while a lot of the time it is fine, sometimes after lifting or carrying heavy things - or even wearing high heels it kills me and I had an op to remove discs so doubt it will improve ever from what it is now. While I try not to let it compact my everyday joy of life I do try to be careful - but I still play with my children and go on rides with them at the fair.

Drusilla · 26/03/2010 10:18

YANBU Report them on the anonymous phoneline. They will be investigated, if they are not doing anything wrong, then no problem. If he is claiming benefits for being unable to wrok, but doing cash in hand work on a building site then he is committing fraud, and if your sister is subletting a cuncil flat then think of all those people in genuine need of one. If they are committing fraud there is no excuse - any fall out is their responsibility, not yours.

tethersend · 26/03/2010 10:32

I find it abhorrent that the government encourages those with the least in society to inform on one another- and that so may people buy into it. Disgusting.

tethersend · 26/03/2010 10:33

*may=many

messymissy · 26/03/2010 10:39

if they are indeed claiming fraudulently, the op may not be the only one who thinks so and may not be the only one think of informing on them.
all benefit frauds get caught out eventually, better it is sooner when teh penalities are less severe than let it build up until the penalities are even worse.

yes it is abhorrent but how else do we as a society make sure those in genuine need get what they need if noneligible people are claiming and using up a limited resource.

I find the fact that there are adverts about it rather disgusting given that the mps have milked the system for years and have had a sense of entitlement to screw the tax payer - there should have been a fraud line for them. Just because it was within the rules doesnt make it right - the rules were wrong.

expatinscotland · 26/03/2010 10:43

I agree, tethers.

Where we live, we know plenty of people who work on the sly.

I couldn't care less, tbh.

expatinscotland · 26/03/2010 10:45

I have shopped someone, though. But it was a person who was not British at all, was on a student visa and boasted over and over about how much 'savings' they had back home, then claimed child benefit and tax credits.

They didn't need the money at all.

So I shopped and they were forced to pay it all back and fined as well and he nearly lost his visa for all their greed.

MillyMollyMoo · 26/03/2010 10:59

If they will be investigated, if they are not doing anything wrong, then no problem.

Well no that's no strictly true, if they are not doing anything wrong and have their benefit stopped whilst they are investigated it could be devastating to a family who has no other source of income for food and fuel, it's not something that should be done lightly.

MathsMadMummy · 26/03/2010 11:00

difficult situation, my instinct says shop them although being an only child I don't know how I'd feel about grassing on my own sister. tough one especially as they have a DD, your niece!

DH and I were eaten up inside when we found out his exW was taking rent from a lodger for several months and not declaring it, continuing to get loads of benefits (worse still, DH's son was kicked out of his bedroom onto the sofa during his GCSEs!!!).

we were so very tempted to tell the council (they live in a council house BTW, pay virtually no rent) - especially as the extra money was still going on fags, Sky TV and catalogue stuff instead of stuff her DCs need. and still complaining that DH no longer pays CSA (his income is too low). FFS. made us really mad

but how could we shop her, what would that've done to DH's kids?

RealityIsWalking100K · 26/03/2010 11:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MiladyDeWinter · 26/03/2010 11:03

I think all this is very divisive too however, depriving someone else in genuine need of a council house is awful. My cousin and his GF did it with a 3-bed, pocketing the rent as she was getting housing benefit and living the good life in a house my uncle let them live in for free in a fantastic area.

Where I live there are families with young children living in terrible conditions many of whom are escaping domestic violence. And housing stock is low because my town was built in the 1970's with most people buying in the 1980's.

Some people with very little don't need encouragement to screw each other over because they're happily doing it themselves. The GF in this case was given the property because my cousin's drug problem caused him to be abusive. Then they get back together and some other poor woman with children is left in the shit because another council house is unavailable.

tethersend · 26/03/2010 11:09

The reason people who need a council house can't get one is because there aren't enough of them- the 'right to buy' policy saw to that. But no, it's far easier to focus on the minority of people who are playing the system and blame them for all society's financial ills. Can people really not see how convenient that way of thinking is for the government?

This thread leaves a very nasty taste in my mouth.

MiladyDeWinter · 26/03/2010 11:13

That is true, tether, there are also plenty of places where more social housing could be built in my town. There's a massive unused field backing on to where my uncle lives and he and the other residents who bought their council houses decades ago have been successfully campaigning against it. Proper NIMBY stuff

all4u · 26/03/2010 11:14

Just a thought:
You have decided what sort of person your sister is - fair enough. You are in the ongoing position of deciding every day by your actions large and small, what sort of person you are.
Actually we are all in this position and that is the core of this thing people call 'morality' or similar. Decide what to do based on what sort of person you want to be/you think you are - then you can live with the consequences. It works!
(With the proviso that for those who don't see the point of this they are out of the ball park anyway and that is why we have the system of Criminal Justice ).

ajandjjmum · 26/03/2010 11:16

Would you report someone who you saw stealing thousands of pounds from a little old lady?

There's your answer.

expatinscotland · 26/03/2010 11:20

No. How would you know they are stealing it? How many old ladies walk around with thousands of pounds on them and you just know they're being mugged?

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