to want to distance myself from my two best mates

[mummysgoingmad]

We all went to dublin last weekend where they both told me they were in relationships..great i thought, they could both do with a bit of male attention.

They then proceeded to tell me that that they were both the other woman, and one of my mates has split up a marriage, the other is having an affair with a man who has a dp and a little girl.

I honestly didn't know where to put myself! I have a dp and a lovely little boy and asked them how they felt if some woman did to me what they are doing to some other poor soul. they both came up with totally useless excuses for example, yeh but you keep your man happy, its true love with you two, he chased me etc etc.

ambu to distance myself from them? I honestly dont think i can see past what they are doing at the moment, and i doubt i will be able to bite my tongue for much longer.

All i want to say to them is, you pair of utter twats, how could you both spilt up relationships knowing that man has a wife or partner and a child for ffs, you both need to find your own men!

ifancy - of course you can't help who you fall for, but you CAN help how you deal with it. Break up with the first person before getting involved with the next. It's not rocket science, and I have cheated myself in the past. It's horrible, hurtful behaviour, and you do not have to do it to anyone.

All this 'it's not black and white' nonsense. It is if you want to treat people properly.

What a load of sexist clap-trap from one of the OP's friends - why is it up to the woman to keep the man happy?

I hope she's able and willing to take full responsibility if and when 'her' bloke does exactly the same thing to her...

Umm... like I said up there, I accept you don't have to act on it. Not passing judgement either way, just understand how it can happen. And disagree, really don't think anything in life (especially when it comes to emotions) is black and white. I'm not saying the women are innocent in this - far from it - nor that I agree with what they are doing, but was saying to the OP that I wouldn't cut off / lose a friendship over it. Is all.

I wouldn't disown my best friend for having an affair. Good people can and often do do bad or unwise things, including haveing ill judged relationships.

I've dated plenty of idiots in the pasy and had dead end relationships, no douby my friends thought I was being stupid to do it but they were there for me all the way.

You know, it always makes me wonder. How do we know if the wife is or isn't a cow? I do agree that it's an old line, but many people are married but also unpleasant or difficult to live with.

I will never agree with the mantra that a wife is always in the right, or is always a good person. I know lots of nasty biatches who also happen to be married. Wife isn't shorthand for flawless innocent woman.

I just don't agree that men can be stolen. It's the men in the wrong here - they're the ones who promised to be faithful to their wives and they're the ones who should be judged for breaking that promise.

It's up to you who you are friends with, but to me this would be a very odd reason to end a friendship. By all means tell them that you don't want to hear about it but friends are friends come good or bad, and this situation is unlikely to have a happy ending. Your friends might need you.

Please forgive all the glaring typos!

Home time for MZ....

But mummys has done what everyone's telling her to do - she has simply asked them not to talk to her about it, and that it makes her feel uncomfortable. She's perfectly within her rights to do that - they're the ones being a tad unreasonable in their responses to her, expecting her just to gloss over it.

Of course the husbands are more culpable that the OW, having made the marriage vows, etc - but that does't give the OW a ticket to ride.

They're still behaving in way that is causing pain to other people. On a sliding scale, they're just a little less further down than the cheating husbands. They're still down the wrong end, though.

I had a friend do this once and I didn't ditch her, but it did make me look at her in quite a different light from there on in. Apparently his wife was a cow, too. [rollseyes]

She wasn't hurting me, and the dude she was with was more in the wrong than she was, but she wasn't exactly coming out of it smelling of roses. And nor did I when I cheated myself.

If the wife is a "cow" or a "bitch" then there is of course another option, isn't there? He leaves her. I've got no problem with people leaving nasty people and I quite agree not all wives are saints, but how does that justify deceit?

I rather think that this friend has never even met the woman she is happy to call a cow - and she is relying on only one person's version of his wife's character traits...and God, how hackneyed is that ridiculous line about the wife "not keeping him happy?"...tbh, I'd sack these friends for this claptrap alone.

You did just the right thing, although in general I think these things are better dealt with face to face. I have a friend in one of these relationships at the moment. I've told her my views about it and have frequently exposed some of his ludicrous lies. I will be there for her when it inevitably all goes tits up, but I've got absolutely no sympathy for her position and she knows that. Fortunately, we have always had a very "straight" relationship and she accepts that although I love her very much (have been friends for over 30 years) I detest what she's doing and would have no desire to meet her married man at all.

But 5Dollar, I don't think they are being unreasonable in their response - they've said 'fine, I won't involve you then and we wont see you this weekend'. They've done what she asked. Can't have it both ways. It's like what my mum used to say, don't ask my opinion if you don't want to hear the truth'

And hurrah for MorrisZap measured approach

ifancyashandy 1 of them said that, the other said its not that when i have to listen to you going on about dp, its not as if you even know his wife, shes a cow, he's told me he wants to be with me, why cant you be happy for me, i love you to bits 2, but sometimes you can be really hurtful.

mummys - it's OK, you did the right thing. These friends are not good examples of women, they know that, which is why they are being so rude and combative about your displeasure at their sordid affairs.

FWIW, you need to reply to the one who was saying she was going to introduce him to you.... and tell her why on earth would I want to meet a man that is lying to and cheating on his family?

And as for the other friend, you have every right to go on about your DP, because he's not attached/committed to a whole other family...

Stick to your guns. I would say to them that I love them, that I don't agree with their choices and that i'll be there for them when they have come to their senses. Friends with morals as low as those, are not the sort of people any decent woman would want for a friend.

Exactly - one of them got a right cob on, and the other one did throw her toys out of the pram a little bit - 'well, I was going to come up and see you and introduce you to Knight in Shining Armour, but I'm not now. [sulks]'

As I subsequently said, I didn't dump my friend when she did the same - but I can see why this really upsets mummys and why she's facing a dilemma over it.

neither have text or called since and neither have i. I'm going to do as advised and leave it a couple of days to let them cool down. They aren't the people i once knew, something in them has changed. I mean 1 of them has had this done to her with her last boyfriend, they were together 7 years until he met a polish girl, she found out what he was doing and ended it. and the other friends mum and dad spilt up because her dad was having an affair..they both really should know better, which i think is annoying me more than anything. They both know how much this sort of thing can damage everyone else and it doesn't seem to bother tham, as long as they're getting some everythings OK!!

Sadly, they think they are really happy & have found soul mates. These men, when they show their true colours will be different men. All of the things that their wives put up with are hidden right now and all your mates are getting is the bit where the chase is on. Let's face it; that's the best bit of any relationship, whether they are espoused or not. It's really sad though, that you are feeling sad.

Your friends know that what they are doing is wrong, they are ignoring reality and that included well meaning friends who point out this stuff.

Even if one of them ends up with one of these utter rotters, they will still be your best friends and I expect, that even though you held your principles, they will respect you for it.

Hold tight there, you are not in the wrong. I would send a friendly text inquiring how they are in a couple of weeks. Or perhaps if you get a jokey text, forward it on. Just don't mention the war, sorry affair.

I'm not saying your friend who threw her toys out was right - and I would be hurt by that response too. But of course they both feel guilty - they are just trying to hide it. And before everyone starts shouting at me, saying, 'If they feel guilty, they should end it' of course they should. But they wont because they are in the early stages of love / lust. Hence my point that nothing is every black or white. Always grey.

None of us is perfect and I hope to god I am never in their position.

P, you are entitled to your opinion. If this makes you uncomfortable, then you should say so. Which you have.

However equally your friends are entitled to say fine, well this is how things are for me atm, we'll keep our distance for the time being etc.

which as i read it is what friend 2 has said.
she hasnt thrown her toys out the pram, she hasnt effed and blinded or got cross. She has simply said her bit, exactly as you have said yours.

I have been in your friend's position myself. I made no secret of what was going on to my circle of friends, because I was not ashamed of my relationship. However I did say to my close friends was that whilst I hoped they would simply be happy that I was happy, I understood they might not be, and might not wish to be in the company of us as a couple, or even me on my own. I said that if that were the case I hoped they would be honest with me, and tell me. which they did.

Ultimately, our friendships have continued largely unaffected since then. The exception is the friends who made out they were fine with it to my face, and then behind my back were commenting/meddling- I have little to do with them now whereas if they had simply told me how they felt, rather than stabbing me in the back, i think we would still be friends.

which is a long winded way of saying that I think you will maintain these friendships, certainly based on my experience but it may well be at a distance for a while if they are spending much of their free time with these men. so dont get upset, have been honest with them and that is important. now wait for the dust to settle and both sides to calm down, and hopefully all will be well.

Just wanted to say that I thought you did the right thing and I suppose it's not really a shock that they're not best pleased about it.

If I was you, I would leave it well alone now. They know how you feel and any further discussion will simply result in them arguing with you

You know, mummysgoingmad, I think their history probably contributes to why they are doing this now. If you have been hurt by it in the past, it is paradoxically easier to say 'Well I'm doing it now, and if anyone gets hurt that's their tough shit, just like it was my tough shit when I got hurt'.

Well done for what you did, mummysgoingmad. You are not obliged to shut up and let them get on with whatever they want to do when you find it hurtful. After all: "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."

I agree that they are angry with you for calling them out. Leave them to it for now, and cherish your family a bit more, for knowing what lies all around.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude or anything... just interested in understanding a little better.

Why would anyone, having an affair with another woman's husband, where DC are involved too, NOT be ashamed of their relationship?

And why would any decent friend simply be happy cos someone they thought they knew is happy, when that person's happiness is potentially at the expense of an entire family?

Beats the hell outta me....

Sorry, just as a side, I had to say, I thought this was a freind of mine who posted, cos WE were in Dublin this last weekend and SHE got pissed off withh us other 3, altho over something comepletely different.
Hope you had as good a time as we did....
If your freinds are true freinds they will realise in a couple of days that you werent being mean, just honest, and thats important in a freindship.
They'll probably come round, but may never mention it to you again, which to me means there will always be a giant white elephant in the room with you, but you had to say it because it was bothering you.
Hope it works out for you x

YANBU, cos they sound like a pair of twats.

BUT, on the other hand, I'm quite unconfortable with the attacking of women "having affairs" with a married man. Surely he is having an affair, if she is single, he is the one doing something wrong? Not that I ever would, but it makes me a bit that we like to blame women for the bad behaviour of men, as if they are blameless pawns in a way......

"BUT, on the other hand, I'm quite unconfortable with the attacking of women "having affairs" with a married man. Surely he is having an affair, if she is single, he is the one doing something wrong? Not that I ever would, but it makes me a bit sad that we like to blame women for the bad behaviour of men, as if they are blameless pawns in a way...... "

Runnybottom, i really don't get this way of thinking. A couple of earlier posters have said the same thing.

While i completely agree that the husband is 100% in the wrong and an asswipe to boot, surely the OW shares a degree of culpability too. While she doesn't directly owe the wife a duty as such, and certainly not like the husband does, doesn't she simply as a decent human being owe her fellow human being a duty not to deliberately contribute too or exacerbate the destruction of another persons life?

I will state my bias now. My husband did cheat on me a number of years ago and while he received and accepted 100% of the blame for his actions, it has always bothered me that the OW never accepted any responsibility for pain she helped to cause me.

mummysgoingmad, sorry for the threadjack. i dont think you are being unreasonable at all.

I don't disagree...its just the feeling I have, that women seem to judge the Other Woman as much or even more than the married man..it doesn't sit comfortably is all. It isn't her that took vows, it isn't her that is doing the dirty.
I'm not in the slightest arguing that its ok, or that shes blameless, its just the wrong focus imo is all. FWIW I have been cheated on, and that doesn't change my opinion.

One thing that strikes ne is that the women concerned seem rather niaive. Many, many married men will tell the OW that the wife is a cow/they don't sleep with her etc etc but far fewer actually leave the wife for the mistress. One day those ladies might need you to mop up their tears.

I speak as the OW. My best friend of 30+ years (male) has been living with his lovely Dp for yonks and he disapproves of my relationship. It's quite simple for us. We agree to differ and we certainly don't let it come between us. I guess if you asked him he'd say the same as me - there are many matters upon which friends will disagree but the relationship we have is too importannt to us to argue over things. I don't go on and on about the man in my life but neither do I neglect to mention him at all, that would be silly and har work to remember. Thus I might say that A and I hhad been to such and such restaurant and it was super but I wouldn't spend half the evening telling my pal about A.

And both my pal and I know that our friendship will last far longer than my relationship.

Apologies for the typos. Knackered thanks to packing in order to move house!

Women focus on the OW because it's more comfortable to believe that there are evil harpies bewitching helpless men out there, rather than face the possibility that one day their man may choose to cheat on them entirely of their own accord. Some women seem to hope/believe that the marriage ceremony is some kind of magic spell.