about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Haven't read all the posts but just read onestops post about holding a baby for a mother whilst she used the toilet. Urhm, I was flying by myself and was the last person on the plane due to other people pushing past me.....ok so not a problem, but with 18 month old I had hand luggage, buggy to fold up (no one offered to help.. my choice but still had to do that to get it on the plane) and then had to get my ticket out of the bag whilst holding my dd. Fine, no problem, flight staff wouldn't let me on the flight without my ticket being shown even though I knew where I was sitting AND had had my ticket checked 3 times, fine I understand that, what I didn't understand was that the flight attendant REFUSED to hold my dd in order for me get my ticket to show her. All the time telling me that I was delaying the take off time. So that puts paid to one of your points doesn't it? Instead I was told to put my child on the floor of the plane to get my ticket out because they also couldn't look in my bag.

Consequences of this action, I was not the perosn booed down the aisle for not helping the mother on her own, someone for First class got up and came and held my dd whilst I got my ticket whilst all the flight attendants stood there twiddling their thumbs. Incidentally they never asked me whether I wanted a meal of a drink, they just went past me. So due to one woman's stupidity...................

Also am I not right in thinking that this strike was deemed illegal at christmas, so what has changed?

Like everyone else during a recession, sacrifices have to be made - pay freezes, differing working hours etc which are not helped by the interference of unions. I am sorry that they don't earn lots of money but then lots of us don't in both the private and public sectors.

I think on this one as there is so little clarity as to what is the problem, I am going to be guided by my own treatment of the staff that work for the airline, and though it might be unusual behaviour by staff, I find it very hard to sympathise with those striking.

BTW, on the flight to the destination was another woman alone whose child obviously had a problem with equalizing and was clutching its head in pain, the cabin crew here told the mother to get her child to "shut up" as it was disturbing other passengers - in a very aggressive manner and where the passengers around her was absolutely horrified by her treatment. And this was very much before strike action was even a glint in the postmans eye.

Geek I didn't claim to be a trained midwife, but we do have basic training in delivering babies. Of course we would prefer a midwife/doctor to do it for us though.
We can prescribe prescription only meds - not just give passengers their own (what would be the point of that?)

GeekOf The Week, no cabin crew would think themselves as good as a midwife to deliver a baby. Bakersman didn't ay that. But we are trained at doing the very best we can do in any medical emergency (inlcluding childbirth), with the resources we have. Remember you deliver babies in a safe environment, with doctors at hand, etc. We would have to do our best at 39,000 feet and sometimes hours away from the nearest hospial. What do you suggest we should do if a passenger goes into labour? Should we say "oooh, let's just leave her to it, after al we don't want to be insulting GeekOfTheWeek, she's studied for years to do this job, it'd be unfair".

What exactly can you prescribe?

Temgesic, Ativan, Isordil, Nitrolingual, Adrenaline.... To name but a few. Not related to childbirth of course

Onestone, I am sure you would do your best. As would most people.

What I found insulting was that it was listed as though it was an aspect of BA's cc superiority. You know, like your ability to make a kir royale or cook for first class.

I do not support your strike as I feel that you do not have it any worse than other professions.

Doodleydoo- the official policy is that cabin crew are not insured to hold passengers' babies. If I accidentally hurt your baby whilst holding it, I'd be personlly responsible and the company wouldn't back me up in a law suit. So, we don't have to hold your babies. I do it as my choice, as I've flown with my DC before, and I totally understand how sometimes you just need a hand. And because on flights I normally miss my DCs so much that I never miss an opportunity to pick up a baby.

The reason why the strike was deemed illegat the last time is because of a tinu clause in the law (made by Maggie Thatcher!); the Unions had sent the ballot to everyone, including crew who were going to leave the company within a few months.

GeekOfTheWeek, our comprehensive training in every aspect of customer service, from serving cocktail to food presentation in First Class, to wine and cheese knowledge, does set us apart from low-cost airline crew. I was explaining that to the poster who asked me how we're different to Ryanair crew. Go back to the post and re-read it.

Onestone and Bakersman - What will you do if ba goes bust?

Don't you worry about the loss of custom due to the strikes?

No, Geek, you're right we dont have it worse than other professions. Yet. The changes and cuts in the pipeline mean things WILL become worse. How would you like it if you were probably going to end up with a 30% reduction to your take home pay, and not know when you were going to be home or not from one day to the next?
Oh and I still stand by what I said, our medical training is far far superior to low cost operators and most other British carriers.

On that note, I must go to bed otherwise I won't make the school run. Night all

I'd look for another job, of course. If we allow Wilie Walsh to carry out his policies, we'd be out of a job anyway (or working more hours for a lot less money, which frankly is unthinkable at our wages). So, we've got nothing to lose.

Bakersman, sleep well

Good luck with finding another job. Its not too easy at the minute.

"Why can't you understand that the workers are victims of greedy, ruthless, draconian management?
What price do you put on haveing your internal organs so screwed up with pressurisation that when you're dying you can't even donate them? What price do you put on having your life expectancy reduced greatly by your job?
Do you think we should halve our wages, when we work weekends, christmases, holidays, and miss our kids' birthdays? Yes, we knew this when we took the job, but at a certain wage. Lowering that would be unfair to say the least."

If you hate it so much become a normal waitress instead of a sky waitress and then a lot of these issues wil no longer be a problem. However, I believe that normal waitresses dont warn quite so much

should have been "earn quite so much".

Onestoptogo - just because one CSD you know is on a newer contract and hence 'only' takes home 26k a year (is that 'takes home' as in after tax?) doesn't account for all the senior ones on older contracts. And your point only goes to serve my point about the AVERAGE figures quoted in the press. I'll say again, the £29k a year figure is from the CAA. And if your CSD mate is 'only' on 26k that means there's at least one CSD on £32k a year to make the average of just those 2 CSDs the quoted £29k figure - but of course there's fewer CSDs then there are lower paid CC, so it's simply Maths to get to £55k...

I also emphasised 'only' because how can you even justify £26k a year when (as Geekoftheweek has pointed out) there are qualified, trained nurses (doing really 'life-saving' jobs on ITUs, day after day, permanently understaffed, not getting to sit-down for 5 mins let alone take their legal meal-breaks) on a little over £20k a year...!?

But all the talk of salaries is a red-herring! Willy wasn't even asking you for a pay-cut, he just wants you to work the whole time you're at work - welcome to the real world ! And it's not for the workers or the Union to decide the level of customer service - that's the management's job and if they screw that decision up, they'll be moved on by the Board - but if they've got the decision correct, they'll keep BA alive ! And if CSDs are slow at the service then they either need re-training or sacking!

Porcamiseria - sorry for the length of these posts, but I was trying to answer a very important thread with detail and facts, not just throw away one-liners (or indeed unnecessary use of obscene words that others are dragging this thread down to)...

Onestonetogo- With the greatest respect the idea that it was unfair ballot people who had left or were leaving the company before the strike and were unaffected by the issues does not seems ludicrous.
As Athomesal points out there are CSDs whose take home pay is £50k more than some of the First Officer's on a flight. That is a nonsense. You may be able to make a Kir Royal but if push comes to shove he can land a plane on the water with one engine.

9 months ago you had a pretty good offer on the table, 9 months of negotiations by Unite meant one week ago you had a reasonable offer on the table that your Unite betrayed you with by calling a strike before you could see it. I have heard from a very reliable source that a lot of Heathrow cabin crew are steaming about that.

Onestonetogo - if holding a baby is not the policy of the airline then it was confusing for you to put that as an argument in one of your initial posts yesterday. I am sorry that BA don't back you up on that one but a bit of common sense rather than the thinly veiled insults to a woman travelling on her own with a child would have sufficed in my matter. The follow on of ignoring me for the rest of the flight because I had asked for a little help was again a step too far, as was being rude to the woman with the crying child. I don't fly a great deal so if you consider this in one year that is 100% of the flights I went on where the cc were rude and unhelpful, not just to me but to my fellow passengers and in a way that was incredibly humiliating condsidering the price of the flights and our paying their salary! If I was as rude to my customers then I wouldn't have any and then I wouldn't have a business and everything would go tits up. Therefore if this is an example of cc on BA, why should we support what can be seen as "bleating" about pay? In reality you have had it pretty good in recent years so it seems and the fact that this "might" be taken away and therefore you are going to strike is daft. When something goes wrong and BA have to get rid of everyone, I expect there will be many cc and staff who will want a govt bail out too........

And as Silver1 says, all the union has done so far is bugger up the offers set out to you - and yet cc and staff are happy to strike at the say so of a few individuals? Again very daft

Normally I would support industrial action when workers conditions are being eroded...but...

The company is in serious trouble. Something needs to happen. The near future is set to worsen and if BA are to survive then there need to be some changes.
Ask any private business if workers are having to accept unpalatbale things at the moment and the answer will be a resounding yes.

The suggested changes are not huge in the scheme of things. Possible, rumoured changes can never the basis of strike action.

Do the staff really not care that this may bring BA down? Or don't they believe the finances are that bad? Pensions deficit anyone...

The comment about the Dorchester made me laugh. Have any of you cabin crew, who think your standards of service are so wonderful, ever eaten in the Dorchester? Umm.....?

And, while I agree it's not always a good idea to compare BA with RyanAir, I would say that, personally, the best service we have received from a UK airline has been flying with Astraeus - a low cost airline - we had hot food and cabin crew who smiled rather than shouted and looked miserable which is often what we get with BA.

Silver1's husband!

Doodleydoo - sorry you had such a bad experience on BA.

But again, "bleating about pay" is not the issue - talk of pay-cuts is a RED-HERRING... Willy has never asked the CC for a pay-cut. He hasn't even asked them to lose any days off and come into work more often. He's simply saying work a little harder when you're at work!!

By comparison, I believe the pilots have taken a PERMANENT pay-cut of nearly 5% (not a 2.6% one which is to be paid back in a year's time, as per the Unite offer) AND they've lost a couple of days off AND they've made changes to their working rules making their rostering more efficient. Willie's not asked for any of that of the CC - he's simply said work a bit harder when you're in work... (Again, kind of deal every CC I know wanted when things looked bad after 9-11!!)

P.S. The comparisons with Ryanair or Easyjet are also all wrong - they're not actually that much cheaper for a lot of its flights! For example, last summer I booked us firm commercial tickets to Geneva this Easter, in Club, for £150 each return... The same Easyjet flights were over £200 (once you've added on your suitcases and skis)... But whilst I'm sipping some champagne in the Club Lounge at H'row, I'll be thinking of all those who believed the perception and hype that the "low-costs" are always way cheaper than BA, having paid £50 more for your unallocated regular seats whilst having scratchcards flogged to you...

Perceptions are often very wrong !

AtHomeSal - but that is how this is all coming across, that its about how much you are being paid for the amount of work to be done.

Perhaps Unite should get a better PR! If they want to get the press and therefore the customers onside then being more open about everything would perhaps gain more support.

I agree that low cost airlines can be a bit of lost perception and that is why when I have flown I have chosen to fly with BA as a better overall package, I don't expect the low cost airlines to be helpful and they are almost never on time BUT BA aren't inexpensive and therefore I state my case that the passengers are paying for salaries.

If it is of any help, although I have had some bad experiences with BA since having a child, I haven't actually been on a low cost flight with my child as I don't feel I would get any more support from them and can't guarantee that we would get to our destination on time which is pretty crucial with a small child so can't compare the two. What I would say that is coming across is that UNITE are doing no one any favours and whatever my experiences of in flight behaviour of staff, I would not support a union that seems to be so blatantly not helping! It just seems to be irritating the passengers and customers rather than helping its members - lets face it what can we see that they have done to help BA staff or customers?