about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

Woah. I know it's not the point of the thread but I'm pretty disgusted at the "make sure they're not seated next to a man" policy. For crying out loud. My sister and I flew as unaccompanied children once or twice, and the BA steward who was in charge of us was... shock... a man. I wonder if that's still allowed, or whether it's OK to chaperone little girls through airports and be their trusted point of contact, but not to sit next to them on a crowded plane for a couple of hours. What a world it sometimes seems. Ah well. As you were.

Other than that, I was feeling quite sympathetic to the strikers.... though it does appear to pay better than some similar service jobs. Not that that's saying much. I wish there was a magic way of making low wages go up without the doom and gloom scenarios that always come in the counter-arguments. Still, I can just about wait 'til I land for that expertly-mixed Kir Royale...

I am sure onestonetogo, might on another occasion agree that the service of cabin crew on BA flights is variable.
I was on staff travel once, and witnessed an incident involving cabin crew and a toddler with Heathrow cabin crew that caused me to support the parents complaint to the captain, not a step I took lightly.
Staff are entitled to unlimmited ID90s, you pay 10% of full fare plus taxes. These tickets give you a spare seat, be it in first club traveler plus or world traveler, sometimes even -it is a good perk.

Some staff also have ID100/club tickets where they pay taxes only-they have one or two of these depending on level of seniority and also number of years of service. These are the perks that cabin crew at the moment will lose if they go on strike.

If the OP is unreasonable-and I don't think she is, then so is Gordon Brown, Lord Adonis and about 1000 volunteers, themselves members of other unions who have taken a decision that normally would seem unconscionable to break the strike of those on their team. It is a decision not taken lightly I would imagine, and petty name calling doesn't change the fact that many are acting because they believe the demands are unreasonable and the strike could cause BA to fold costing thousands of workers their jobs terms and conditions.

I do truly feel sorry for a lot of the cabin crew because I do feel they have been let down by their union,and now they have an awful lot to lose. They are people who work for a living, and you can't fault them for taking a well paid job, but at times like this I think they have to accept that previous tactics of "we want" ba says "no" UNITE say "we'll strike" BA works out the cost of strike vs cost of demand and gives in, can and should no longer work.

I do not work for BA myself but I know a man who does

What happens to the BA cabin crew's pension scheme if BA goes bust because people stop flying with them?

It's tough. It's a tough environment. I'm sure you're all pissed off your jobs will be more stressful. But you could all lose your jobs very soon indeed.

I think it's bonkers to strike over things like this at this point in the economic cycle. In boom time you might have a point. Right now when people in every walk of life are losing their jobs it looks as if you live in a fantasy world.

Of course we have all gained much through various actions in the past but that doesn't justify every industrial action.

It is tricky, I do have sympathy to workers whose rights are being eroded by management.

Having said that, this recent strike action is likely to bring BA down entirely within a couple of years in any event. Surely only a person with no choice would willingly book with a carrier who could cancel at the last minute?

Even my parents, die hard BA supporters forever, who spend thousands of pounds each year travelling first class to Australia and the Caribbean, as well as probably flying a couple of times a month on business throughout Europe have finally given up and have booked with Singapore Airlines and Virgin as they are so concerned that flights would be cancelled.

It's a real shame, BA used to be an airline to be proud of, but now? Not so much.

So I do support the workers' right to strike, but they have got to appreciate that it means that they will probably cause the airline to go out of business. Which ultimately is a huge shame both for BA and also for Unions in general, who can so often bring about fundamental change.

clam/jem Unfortunately it is not unheard of for predatory peadophiles to use air travel as a method to gaining access to unaccompanied children. I am normally the biggest defender of men in general and think it's ridiculous to think that paedophiles lurk on every corner - however, if sending my child alone on a flight I'd want him sat next to a woman!

I once had the displeasure of taking a flight back from the far east and there was a man who gave me the most "uncomfortable" feeling who requested to be place next to a lone child.

www.sfweekly.com/2009-07-15/news/predators-are-free-to-move-about-the-cabin/1

Is there no other way to resolve this other than strike action? I too, feel that BA will not last much longer.

FWIW I am a midwife in the NHS, we are constantly working below recommended numbers of staff, doing unpaid overtime at the end of a shift because often there isn't anyone to relieve us, no breaks even though we don't get paid for them. Work is very stressful and staff morale is low. I honestly do not think that BA workers have it worse than us.

"we know our wines, cheeses,and cocktails (try asking a Ryanair crew member to make a Kyr Royale), we lay your table like they do at the Dorchester Hotel (in First class), we cook and serve First class food"

Seriously?

I am too agog at some of the mindless, short-sighted drivel being spouted by BA employees to bother ranting on here

well apart from to say I'll see you down the JobCentre

BTW I can't make a Kyr Royale but I can deliver a baby and make tea and toast afterwards

"we know our wines, cheeses,and cocktails (try asking a Ryanair crew member to make a Kyr Royale)"

I wouldnt ask a Ryanair steward to make a Kir Royale (shame you didnt learn to spell it as well as make it) because I'd be paying around 20% what I'd pay for the flight with BA so it would hardly be reasonable to expect the same level of service.

BA attendants get paid more than attendants on other airlines. In a competitive industry, where price information on a route is easily available, you need your costs to be in line with other players, so if the average pay is more, then the number of attendants per flight has to fall- that's common sense. If a BA attendant is only providing the same level of service as a Virgin attendant and getting paid more, then they're just poor value for money.

Anyway, since I discovered Cathay and Qantas I am SO over BA. They can go bankrupt for all I care. Then the attendants can all go work for easyjet for half the pay and will only have themselves to blame.

I used to be CC with BA and my sister still is. Onestoptogo is quite right how little the public know but that's because of the nonsense our Union, (BASSA and Unite) have been quoting in the press and on the TV. It makes us sound like a bunch of throw-backs from the 70s. (And the 70s is where a lot of our working practices stem from, when we were once a Nationalised Industry - but we're not anymore and unless we help BA get competitive, we could see BA go under, and then how would our T&Cs be? Derek Simpson or Tony Woodley wouldn't be affected- they'd still be in their £100k+ a year Union jobs).

The reason the company IMPOSED changes on us is because our union refused to acknowledge how bad things have been for BA the past 12mths+ and have refused to negotiate meaningfully with them for over a year now, unlike other work groups within BA who did engage, negotiate and achieve agreements by the original 30th June 2009 deadline!

As for losing one crew on longhaul, what the public should know is that this won't adversely affect the service, it just means that the Cabin Services Director will have to take part in the service (whereas before, they didn't), so the customer should not even notice the difference in Service. And that's what this is about - the CSD having to stop watching videos and do more on a flight than a little bit of paperwork and simply 'overseeing the service' !

Onestoptogo is also absolutely right that most CC don't earn the £29k quoted in the press (I certainly didn't). So what do Unite suggest to BA as a deal? ALL CC take a 2.6% pay cut - so the even lower paid Gatwick crew can also take a pay-cut to solely save the poor CSD from having to take part in the service and being allowed to hide in their 'office' doing very little on board for their £55k+ a year. Well that really sounds like a Union looking after the MAJORITY of members - NOT! (Some CSDs are very visible and hard-working, but many are lazy and can never been found... "I've worked for this bl**dy company for 25 years, I've earnt my right to get paid a fortune to do bugger all")... Furthermore the quoted £29k figure wasn't even a BA figure, but an independent Civil Aviation Authority figure and it was an AVERAGE. So if most CC are on far less than that, it merely highlights how much (£55k+ a year) the CSDs are on in order for the CC average to be as high as £29k.

Finally, the new fleet... It's actually illegal to go on strike for something that MIGHT affect you at some point in the future. Yes we'd probably lose the higher paying trips to the new CC, but it's not our WAGES that will change. Onestop is referring to the ALLOWANCES - in theory these are paid purely to cover the cost of eating down route when BA asks you to stay overnight in the middle of a very expensive city such as Zurich. But if you're no longer going to Zurich for the night then you're not actually buying any meals in that expensive city (but of course, most crew eat a sandwich and keep the allowances - probably the same crew who, like everyone else, were outraged by our MPs being paid certain allowances that they weren't actually spending). And of course, if you shout too loudly about your take-home pay going down if you don't get enough lucrative night-stops, then the tax-man will tax the allowances even more heavily if he finds out they're not being used for meals down-route but merely topping up your wages (which according to my sister has just happened and allowances are now taxed 60%... do you want it to be 100% !!).

Bottom line is that times are hard and most workers in the real outside world, including my husband, have had to take pay cuts and changes to their T&Cs to keep their company afloat and hence keep their jobs. And Willy Walsh hasn't even asked you to take a pay-cut, nor give up days off/come to work more often - he's simply said, when you're in work I'd like you to work a little harder. AND, no compulsory redundancies! Blimey when I was in BA that's the kind of imposition we'd dream of - "I don't mind working a bit harder or doing an extra couple of trips a month, just don't give me a pay-cut or make me redundant" was the common vibe after events like 9-11...

For these very good reasons there is NO public support, NO support from other workgroups within the company, NO legal support (a judge has ruled the changes are non-contractual and very reasonable in the economic circumstances) and NO support from any political party (even a LABOUR Primeminister has condemned this as disproportionate for the changes made). When will BA CC wake-up, stop believeing the lies and propaganda BASSA and Unite spin them, and realise they are very, very alone in this...!?

P.S. If you need evidence that Unite lie, what about Easter? After the Xmas own-goal, Len McClusky re-assured the public by stating "Families can book their holidays over the Easter period in confidence". And has now called a strike on the 27th March! He didn't say "passengers" or "customers" can book, he deliberately said "Families". Families means children and children's Easter holidays means the school holidays. And yes, most English schools don't break up until 1st April, but some English and just about all Scottich schools break up on the 26th March... So what if those FAMILIES booked their flights "in confidence" with BA for their Easter holiday on the 27th March? You tried to screw everyone's Xmas breaks and your representatives assured everyone that Easter would NOT be targeted and have now gone back on that - is it no wonder you have zero public support...!?

Arctic Fox, my point about the Ryanair cabin crew was to reply to the poster who asked me what's the different between BA crew and low-cost airline crew. I tried to explain that we ofer a completely different type of service. Of course you can't really compare the two, as Ryanair is cheaper than BA. Wages should reflect that difference. Of course yoy wouldn't ask a Ryanair crew to make you a cocktail, that would be silly and beyond their duty.
Why so much spite? Why do you wish for BA crew to work for half their wage? What's happened to society to make everyone so bitter? Do you really think that a full-time wage for a crew member of £1700 a month (including all allowances) can be halved?
Why can't you understand that the workers are victims of greedy, ruthless, draconian management?
What price do you put on haveing your internal organs so screwed up with pressurisation that when you're dying you can't even donate them? What price do you put on having your life expectancy reduced greatly by your job?
Do you think we should halve our wages, when we work weekends, christmases, holidays, and miss our kids' birthdays? Yes, we knew this when we took the job, but at a certain wage. Lowering that would be unfair to say the least.

Btw BA's chief exectutive earns 5 TIMES what the president of the U.S. earns. Don't you think management should cut their astronomic wages instead of eroding ours?

Michael O Leary might be a tossser but he wouldn't stand for this!!! he'd roast em alive

agree, strike, BA go bust, then veryoine screwed

ATHOME, too too long! bullet points needed !!!!!

I am also BA cabin crew. What Onestone has said is true. The salaries quoted in the press have Bern grossly exaggerated for us and did not compare like with like (ie our overseas meal allowances were included, Virgin's weren't). Compare our salaries with other comparable airlines (Lufthansa, KLM, Singapore, Iberia) and we earn around the same - sometimes more, sometimes less. Our union has offered very very generous packages of cost cutting which BA have turned town outright.
We are trained to higher standards than the low cost carriers- they don't need as much medical knowledge etc for example because they only fly shorthaul so won't be too far away from an airfield where they can divert. We are trained to save lives (there have been two amazing examples recently where crew put their medical training to use and saved passengers lives). We can deliver babies, we can give prescription only medications.
I can't remember who said something on here about having an extra crew member for doing hot towels? That is total fiction. We actually had more crew onboard prior to 9/11, that was supposed to be a temporary decrease in crew numbers until the business picked up. It did (record profits a couple of years back) but the crew member was never reinstated. Customer service levels are suffering as you can't physically be in 2 places at once.
Believe me, striking is a very last resort. None of us want to strike, we don't want to inconvenience others. However we have been left with little choice. If we don't stand up for our rights we will not have a job worth having in about 18 months. It's a sad state of affairs but it's true. We have been well and truly pushed into a corner by Willie Walsh. He wants this strike. He wants to break the union and put us all on minimum wage.

AthomeSal, what's your source for the 55K figure for CSDs? My friend, who's been in BA for 26 years and is a CSD full time, takes home 26,000 a year. That's good wages, but what a CSD deservec imo.

Also, you claim that the service is not affected by the removal of a crew member- wrong! We've literally lost a CSD (cos they're now busy working in Club), and an efficient crew member (CSDs are slow on the service). When the In Flight entertainment system breaks on a seat, the CSD is too busy to sort it out, and passenger is left waiting for ages. The service takes much longer, affecting the length of breaks the crew can take during the flight.
To work one crew member down, is the equivalent of a football team with a player sent off. Trust me, ultimately it's both rew and passengers who pay the price.

Bakersman, isn't it sad how people buy into the Daily Mail propaganda? I would never dream of having a go at a particular workforce for going on strike, nor would I feel within my rights to tell them that they earn too much!

Anyway, must go and make a massive banner for the picket line! How about "Willie is a cunt"?

Sorry 'been' not 'Bern'. Blooming corrective typing thingy. Hmm, and jet lag after a long overnight flight

Porcamiseria, go and work for O' Leary, since you have such admiration for a multi-million tax evader tosser!

Athomesal, it is interesting to hear all the things I was told at the weekend being corroborated by you.

Lol @ Onestone!!
Must go to sleep. Thanks for fighting our corner. You're right though, why do people believe the Daily Mail? Why do people think they know all about someone elses job? Grrrrrr.
See you at Bedfont - I'll recognise you from your banner (although there may be a few similar ones!!)

I hate MOL!!!! but my anger for BA right now is higher than for him, just for a nanosecond

so so many people have been negatively affected by the Credit crunch. Yet BA want to strike, which will harm their firm even more, no common sense whatsoever, and no loyalty to the customers that have kep them in a job

I think Unions were valid, but now we have a fair employment law and employment tribunals etc I think they are a PITA, null and void

bakersman I find your post about delivering baby's and giving out medication insulting.

You may have had basic training in this but I have spent 4 and a half years at uni (3 years nurse training, 18 months midwifery) to become competent in this.

I am sure many could, with a small amount of training, watch a baby be born or give someone their own pills. Can you suture a woman afterwards or deal with a pph or retained placenta? Do you have any knowledge of the medication you are giving?

Ps never use staff travel. It's expensive and stressful, especially with dc in tow. Quite happy to lose it if I protect our future T&C

I don't know all of the ins and outs and I expect both sides are being unreasonable.

However, all this strike action has meant that I will no longer book with BA because I can't trust them any longer. DH's employer has also dropped them as their preferred carrier because they can't be trusted to actually fly when things are booked.

So regardless of why they are striking it is a bad move business wise. I guess with all strikes you have to balance out the likelihood of pushing your company to the wall and therefore not having a job at all or deciding whether the company can take a bit of a hit and pushing for what you want.