about the forthcoming BA strike?

[iwastooearlytobeayummymummy]

DS (11)is supposed to be going on a much anticipated school trip next week, but both outward and return dates are strike days.
I can't begin to tell you how much he has been looking forward to this trip.

DD3 (13 )is also away, at the same time, on a choir trip, but flying with another operator.

Excited at the prospect of 2 children away,and happy to leave DD2 ( 18) home alone, DH and I have booked a much needed break ourselves, first time away without the children in 5 years.

Now everything is 'up in the air', no pun intended .

Can somebeody please explain why cabin crew are so aggreived? I've had a look at BBC's overview of the reasons behind the strike, but don't really get it.I also work for an organisation ( local authority actually) that has announced a 2 year pay freeze, recruitment freeze and forthcoming redundancies. Apart from free tea bags and instant coffee I get no other priveliges.

IABU to think they've got nothing to strike over?

"YABU

IMO one of the only reasons we have such good pay and working conditions in this country (statutory maternity pay, maternity leave entitlements, child is sick leave, paternity leave, minimum wage, EQUAL PAY FOR WOMEN - look to the Dagenham industrial action - I could go on...)

is that in the past, people have supported one another when there is a greivance. Look to the USA and how they have far fewer entitlements (I am not stating which system is right, I know I prefere to have the mat leave entitlement that is available in the UK)

Over the next 10 - 20 years, a lot of people are going to be facing problems with changes in their employment and pay conditions and I, for one, hope that if I need to take industrial action because I am facing up to a 40% pay cut, then people will be a LOT more supportive than we have been of both BA staff and the Posties.

These are the kind of changes that could leave people homeless and unable to pay their mortgages. FGS it's a holiday, which could be life changing but is unlikely to be, BUT the BA staff are facing tough times, with no apparent consultation process.

I wish the BA staff luck and give them my support - yes industrial action is VERY inconvenient, but is usually a last resort - why would the staff want to lose pay? You don't get paid for striking..."

Well said bb99

I have to say I don't look at the strike as being a political issue, but rather a prudent issue. The airline is at stake, and Willie Walsh has saved one previous airline he was brought in to turn around this one.

The unions have used this strike and previous threats of strikes to try and continue to gain power over BA and thus show other large industries how powerful they can be if they are challenged, often times it's not even about the members but rather a case of showing strength.

I have to say I do think that the PM should have said he supported and encouraged the strike breakers/workers, but I would say that as I think the strike was worth breaking.

There are a number of instances in the whole process that have led me to believe UNITE and BASSA aren't interested in the welfare of their members, but rather their own agenda.

To name but a few I have a list,

December the disregard of balloting rules in order to boost yes votes regardless of the legality of their actions-and it was found they knew what they were doing was wrong.

The fact that they had a court case pending in feb (that went against them) that could have been the spring board for further action was ignored in favour of attempting to to ruin Christmas for BA passengers and hope to crush the company and preempt the court's decision.

The calling of this strike, and the way it was handled despite assurances they would not call strike dates until they had balloted members over the deal WW had presented.

The fact that union reps who were due to start CSD courses this week have called in sick rather than freely say they are on strike.

The dishonesty from the union to members over what has been put forward by management to the members.

The fact that for the face of being victorious they were willing to sacrifice the pay of those at Gatwick to ensure that Heathrow CC didn't have to work as hard as Gatwick

The intimidation that has occurred to try and force cc onto the picket line.

I really could go on and on, these issues don't represent what cabin crew who are walking out want.

The High Court judge in December who ruled against UNITE, said that the deplorable thing in the whole situation was how the unions had behaved and had really let down their members.

Some of their PR tactics have also been grotesque a video that has been removed because it was branded offensive portrayed their suffering as on a par with Tienamen Sqaure, the holocaust apartheid Burma and the vitenamese children fleeing nepalm bombs, and a poster campaign that had the American Veterans formally complaining to BASSA and Unite.

if you can't grasp why its right and over 80% voted for strike then you are a nasty Tory.

They are striking because despite already low wages BA is trying to get rid of 1 (necessary) crew member per flight to compensate for wide spread inefficiencies and poor management decision making throughout the business.

jennyslinger go back and re-read that apparently isn't the only reason they are striking-and Gatwick CC already work to that model, and the person being removed does no work on the flight, oh yes and they are the highest paid cabin crew in any major airline.

And if I called you a vile labourite would that be okay? No so try and be a bit mature would you?

bump

gardenpath, don't you think that those people who have saved up to go on holiday during a recession have a right to do so? Many people book holidays way in advance, and yes holidays whether it be in this country or abroad taking a flight or staying at home ARE essential for having a break and keeping peoples sanity. Without those people going on holiday, cc wouldn't have a job and neither would anyone else at BA.

As far as poor pay goes, I am sorry but the figures put on here by a member of ba cc are an awful lot more than many get. I would say something about what their duties are with regards to saving people's lives BUT I am sure that I would get flamed, lets just say it isn't life on the line stuff that our army boys do or protecting us in the same way our police force do, or nurses etc. And what is the average amount of babies per cc worldwide that are delivered?

I agree with silver1 this is not a political issue at all, no one is suggesting that we take away the right to strike in our democracy, what we are saying is that the reasons for this strike are more about UNITE than anything else. Many many people have been asked something similar by their employers to ensure that a) the company remains employing, b) that the company is able to employ as many of those people as possible in a recession. What is being asked of ba cc, is quite cheerfully it seems being carried out by Gatwick crew (who hold second class status apparently).

Some of the things said on this forum have proven that it is an unjustified strike in the opinion of the general public, for example being able to work one month on then one month off, having the flexibility of working part time and still have a relatively good rate of pay.

Well said beanpot

pmsl at enslaved. Actually you do have a choice. And BA cabin crew are not on minimum wage by a long way.

My DH has been BA pilot out of Heathrow for 10 years, I have done a LOT of staff travel with him and our kids and in general, I think the cc are great. However, their working practices do hark back to the golden days of BA, when it was a national airline, had little competition and when there was little unemployment in the UK. I appreciate it is very hard to accept less glamorous t&c's and to be seen to be 'backing down' to the management. But in order to keep the company competitive, cuts must be made.

The pilots made these cuts, negotiated by their (extremely competent) union, so that they didnt have to take huge pay cuts but instead conceded on the little things (like the fruit and cheese platter that crew get before a long haul flight). BASSA want to hang on to all those little things and BA management want to cut costs by getting rid of them. Seems fair to me.

Comparing BA cc work with locost airlines is amusing. No, EasyJet staff maybe wouldnt fix you a 'Kyr Royale' but...would the BA staff be prepared to clean the plane after it's landed? EasyJet staff do just that.

I would always support a worker's right to strike, unions are important for fighting for our rights and conditions. But the Bassa and Unite reps have let their members down badly in this affair IMO. This strike is unnecessary, illjudged, and will serve no purpose other than to alienate the public from the company at a time when BA cannot afford it. I hope Willie Walsh stands firm and we come out of this with a fairer system for ALL cc and a more moderate Union who can see the big picture, not just the one painted by their overpaid and underworked reps.

UNITE are unrealistic of the real world.
When my husband joined BA as a pilot with an unfrozen ATPL he had spent £60,000 +living costs, of his own money training (some pilots take out huge loans for this) to be a pilot before he even had a job offer.
He then started on a salary and it was 5 years before he was earning what some senior cabin crew and long-haul CSDs are earning.
Then just as he got to the level where his pay would have leaped up he took a pay cut along with all of the other pilots of 2.6% basic they will never get the pay back, and a 20% cut in allowances.
They did this to prevent compulsory redundancies, keep the airline flying and save themselves the hassle of having to look for another job in the recession. Their union went to BA, worked with BA and negotiated a deal with BA.

At the same time cabin crew were offered one crew member down and the disruption agreement, no pay cut and a share save scheme, and no new fleet, which is the concern that OSTG seems most worried about.
Nine months of negotiation had eroded this offer down to no pay cuts. Once a strike was called this offer was off the table because the strike cost the airline money.

When BA management approached the CC unions 9 months ago, the conversation apparently went along the lines of
"You want to save £65,000,000 well if you try any cost cutting with us we'll go on strike that will cost you more than £65,000,000"
And so here we are... Day 3.

Cabin Crew are not being asked to make huge sacrifices. They are being asked to look at how dire the situation really is out there, and work with one crew member down on the flight, utilising the cabin crew member who previously carried out no service or duties on a flight and thus other than the non working CSD the work levels shouldn't have been noticeably different for CC. It works fine at Gatwick.

Hi Silver

I'm new to mn btw...nice to meet a fellow DW of pilot! Some of the cc are living in cloud cuckoo land I think....

Hi Pinkcheesy - it's nice to meet you too.
I sometimes think we should have a pilots wives club, it wouldn't be much of a club though I only know one IRL
CC are indeed in cloud cuckoo land sometimes.

OP - YANBU.

The brutal fact, regardless of nasty comments and slurs on politial affiliation, is that BA is no longer 'public sector' and has to compete against other airlines in its industry. BA cc have massively better T&Cs than the cc of any other major airline. Something had to give.

Personally I half hope that this strike runs and runs so that we at least get a proper resolution, instead of a few days of disruption and a sticking plaster solution. The Unite/Management battle needs to be sorted once and for all. There's a strike, or strike called off at the last minute, at least once a year with BA. It has messed up travel plans for me in the past and is 90% of the reason we booked Virgin when we travelled long haul two years ago. BA cannot continue with this uncertainty. It's too damaging.

gardenpath If people have saved and paid for a holiday I think they are entitled to get it!

Are you so naive that you think everyone flying is going on holiday? Out of Heathrow there's a lot of business passengers too. What about people booked to visit families? My niece and nephew travel to Canada on their own to visit their Dad (have to go BA or AC as unaccompanied minors). They got delayed in the 2005 due to catering strike - how upset were they when they had been literally counting the sleeps till they see their dad again?

Also BA is not liable for all the out of pocket expenses incurred by passengers due to the strike (according to Simon Calder onthe BBC on Sat) ie car hire, missed hotels etc.

There are lots of BA CC living near me and they certainly don't appear to be on the breadline!

well written silver and pinkcheesy, my dh BA also, tho not flight deck.

Hi carrots, et al. I confess to being a leftie. What I find interesting about a lot of the anti-strike chat and indeed the chat about the miners, is the assumption that if a company is unprofitable then the workers end up on the sharp end. My issue is this, everything seems to me to be about profit and shareholders, its not about public service and the needs of ordinary folk. That's why we have privatised utilities, transport and bits of health services and social services, etc, etc. Oh and don't get me started on banks. Yes, that's capitalism, but I'd rather we had a better system for running our world, that really sorted out poverty, the impact of global warming, and the negative impact that international capitalism has had. I'll get my coat, shall I?

MABS you could join my little pretend BA spouses club too

Seriously though, what I hope this discussion is showing is that this strike affects more than just cabin crew.
There is a lot at stake and a lot of people in the company, and I mean a literally thousands, have staked an interest in ensuring that UNITE and some of the cabin crew don't bring down the airline.
MABS husband worked/volunteered the day after their child had major surgery, we/dh gave up our family holiday for DH to volunteer on the strike days.
There is a lot at stake, not just for cabin crew but also for the thousands of other employees of British Airways who have already made sacrifices in terms of pay and conditions, redundancies and working harder. Most of the staff at the airline are keen to ensure that these efforts are not wasted because Cabin Crew aren't willing to make a few reasonable concessions in their really quite generous terms and conditions.

Well said Silver1, can I join you BA spouse club too please Your point about the strike having huge ramifications on the whole community and their families is what gets me the most. OSTG is happy to call pilots tight but neglects to mention that they have taken a 2.6% pay cut and have increased their annual work commitment (known as "credit", based on a combination of time away, flying hours and duty hours) and also reduced from 4 pilots to 3 on some long routes.

thanks silver. dh volunteering at lhr tnite now till 11pm, after he has done his own day's work

MunchkinsMumof2 the more the merrier
The pilots also on top of your list, took a 20% cut in their allowances.

MABS I do feel for your whole family, it is hard for your DH but also such bad timing

Thanks Silver, much appreciated, ds is doing very well tho

Never ave time to post (11 week old plus school run to do) but been following this thread as I used to be frequent flyer for work (first/business) and a gold card holder for years. I've had some great and some awful experiences with BA but was always loyal because BA flew to the destinations I needed to get to non-stop.
Over the years the constant threats of strikes, and as far as I'm concerned lower standards of service make me think twice before booking BA. On this one, Cabin crew are delusional and I'll be an honorary member of your BA spouse club.
The Union have made an utter mess of negotiations and as has been pointed out, months later with mounting losses for the airline, management has had no option but to offer a far inferior deal from what was initially put forward. For Unite boss (TW?) to think that the board will go over WW's head to enter negotiations......I think he's been smoking something. Unless the board is prepared to fire WW which isn't about to happen.

Mmmmh, I can see a pattern emerging here: pilots' wives ganging up together against the female stewardesses that their husbands spend stop-overs with ???

OSTG
Good grief!! Have you seen some of the battleaxes my DH has to fly with??? The words bargepole and touch spring to mind...

I have every sympathy with workers with a bad deal in life but I honestly dont think that BA cc have got a bad deal (nor do the flight crew). There has to be some compromise somewhere on all sides. And I think you have been woefully mistreated by BASSA who have fed you lies in order to get what a tiny minority of cc wants.

My DH just got home today after 3 days away, said the cc on his trip were ok but on the crewbus at Heathrow were peering out the windows to see who was on the outbound buses...ie who was breaking the strike. They boasted about hate emails and texts being sent to cc who were planning to work. That is shameful behaviour and warrants disciplinary action IMO.

Interesting to see if the next strike wave takes off on the 27th...