Was I being unreasonable not to fold my pushchair when travelling on a bus?

[mummycake]

I have recently read an article in the news of the world by veteran journalist Carole Malone who debated whether parents should be allowed to sit at the front of buses with their pushchairs as she believed that they take the spaces reserved for people with physical disabilities. She stated that pushchairs are designed to be folded flat and should therefore always be folded before going on a bus journey to avoid inconvieniance to others particularly wheelchair users. I used to be a regular public transport user when my son was tiny and rarely folded up my pushchair thinking that these spaces where meant for pushchair users also! Was I wrong to do this, as I would never for one minute want to inconvieniance anyone particularly those who would struggle to sit elsewhere. What are your opinions on this?? This is a genuine thread due to my interest in this matter and the hope that I have not made life difficult for people with more need for the seats than me. By the way I would have always given up my seat for wheelchair users but was concerned that people wouldnt come on the buses if they saw that these spaces were filled!!!

i think you will find most people in wheelchairs gave up using buses.

would you want to have to fight a mum fo the right to get on the bus every journey?
I know I don't ever take dd on a bus for that reason.

I had a twin buggy , but how in Gods name do you take out two babies plus any bags and then fold it up. If the bus is that busy and you can't get a seat how do you safely hold the babies. I am very fortunate that I very rarely had need to use public transport when my twins were small. I will always offer my seat to an elderly person or struggling parent, so am not in the least bit inconsiderate, but I do think expecting someone with an un steady toddler to take them out of their push chair is unreasonable. Buses should either lose a few more seats to make more wheel chair/ pushchair space, or employ bus conductors to give assistance to the passengers. I read that article and was livid

Tooth flooty, read the thread. Good job really that you were too "fortunate" to have to use public transport really. The less selfish lazy folk mums like yourself and the better it'll be for those of us who don't consider public transport a last resort, but take it through choice rather than clog up our cities with more cars.

Agree tis difficult to take two babies out and fold buggy, but not impossible like it is to get outof a wheelchair and fold that. Just get off the bus and walk a couple of stops till the next bus comes!

With respect to Carole Malone writing this article i wouldnt worry too much, she has no kids and really cant throw stones at Gabourey Sidibe for being fat because she was a size 20 or more for years. I met her three or more times a year when married to my ex for about 4 years and being a bit of a fat arse myself used to spend ages with her disecting our various trying to loose weight techniques so shes in no postion at all! Yes i know now she has lost the weight but i bet she hasnt forgotten how shit she felt if someone called her a nasty name.

I have used the bus rarely since i have had children but i have to agree and say that when i have i nearly always fold up the buggy incase someone who is disabled needs the space - its a no brainer! Can i just add as well that when i was bus reliant (with DD1) i knew i didnt really have the luxury of a big cumbersome buggy if i was going to use it on buses, something easy to fold and portable just made sense and made life a whole lot easier.

Only as unreasonable as the bus driver who rolls his eyes as soon as he sees me + buggy on the pavement.

Or as unreasonable as the bus driver who pulled off suddenly, making my (young and fit) friend fall and twist her ankle.

Or the (specific) driver on my route who doesn't check if everyone has finished disembarking before closing the doors (pretty frightening for a child on foot!)

If I look a bit grim-faced and uncompromising on the bus - the pressure of discourteous bus drivers has a lot to do with it.

Bring back conductors.

It's a pain if you have to fold your buggy, yes. I imagine it's one hell of a pain not being able to walk.

Priority in this order for the space on buses, IMO: wheelchair users; buggy users; old birds with zimmer frames or bags-on-wheels thingies; people with lots of luggage.

You can only pull the "I got here first" line if you have equal or greater need than your successor.

Kif has a point you know.

While I'm shocked (but not surprised) at some of what Riven has had to put up with, it's a sad but unfortunate fact that there's not much you can do about the attitude of Jo/e 'Oik' Bloggs - but bus drivers provide a service and should insist that wheelchair users get priority (kicking off Jo/e 'Oik' Bloggs whether with or without
pram/buggy/pushchair)).

Riven you would know this I'm sure, but I would have thought that wheelchair users had a right to the space under disability discrimination legislation? Shouldn't the drivers be enforcing this??

Poor Riven. You really must get onto the bus company as they are obliged by law to make their buses accesible to all.

I spoke to our local bus provider regarding this issue and they said that drivers were only in a position to ask parents to fold up buggies and couldn't get involved in confrontation/enforce this if the Mum said no. At this time I worked with someone who used a wheelchair and we often had to wait in the cold/rain/wind (Scotland!) for the next bus if a mum (ALWAYS young and able bodied without exception) said no. I would have confronted the Mums myself but did not want to embarrass the lady I was with.

I am also a mother of 2 (1 still in a buggy) feel strongly that if Mums want a designated space on a bus then they should get down to Westminster and chain themselves to buses. This is what people with mobility issues had to in order to make the built environment accessible so they could participate in their communities and society.

That said, designers of buses should make sure there is sufficient storage space aboard buses for the buggies once folded. And get a Maclaren or a sling and leave the massive prams at home!

Yep I lived in a tow. Where wheelchair users could only go out after 6.30pm and had be back by 10pm on hrly bus or on a Sunday where buses every 2 hrs from 10am till 4pm

rest of time the every 30 min buses had stairs to get on

hence why I now live in village where can get 3 buses a hr all acessiable and they enforce the buggy fold rule if I'm waiting to get on with ds

Mummycake, the spaces clearly state that while they can be used by a pushchair that wheelchairs have priority.

The amount of times selfish people will not move their pushchairs for a wheelchair is staggering, thankfully on our local bus route most of the drivers are good about the rules and make them move out of the space, fold the chair or get off the bus.

Someone with a baby/child in a pushchair has the option of folding it, someone with a person in a wheelchair does not.

Thank you that you are one of the mummies that move, it make my life a whole lot easier when I have my mother out in her chair.

They will be wanting the right to vote next, and to be spoken to, instead of across.

I never knew that about low floor buses not running at night! Disgusting.

I am shocked by what you say Riven, that is awful that you and DD have been spoken to like that.

I have used a lot of buses since DD was born (19 months) and have always fully understood that wheelchair users get priority. However, in all that time I've never had to fold the pushchair for a wheelchair and am beginning to see why!

Would happily fold it for other reasons e.g. bus just being crowded, but again never been necessary. And I bet journalists like Carole Malone would complain about wriggly toddlers like mine being held on parents' laps and trying to poke their fingers everywhere. At least they're contained in pushchairs.

I regularly see wheelchair users on my bus, morning and evening, and our drivers do ask buggy users to fold them to let wheelchair users on if both designated spaces are full.

I have to say though that I have never seen a buggy user refuse or get off instead or anyone abuse the buggy or wheelchair user. Maybe us Yorkshire folk are just more considerate?

And my DS had a MacLaren from birth. Twas easy to fold with one hand. Have prams got a lot more complicated then?

I can fold my McLaren with one hand, but I live on a steep windy road with bus drivers who don't help me on the bus, nor wait till I've sat down. So holding my toddler on one hip and folding with the other arm means no hands to steady myself, means we'll all fall over.

And I have it easy, really; one small cooperative toddler, an easy-fold pram (totally unsuitable for my roads, a complete pain to push to the bus stop, but my other pram, with bigger wheels and better suspension, isn't as good on the bus, so it's damned if you do, etc), all of us healthy and able-bodied. And it's still a huge pain, and I can only do it because I've never had a wheelchair board one of the buses around here and so I always stay unfolded.

(You wouldn't live around here if you were in a wheelchair, and had the choice, either. There's no pavement; you'd have to wheel yourself up a hill, on the road, in an area where people whip around blind corners. Terrifying)/

Of course wheelchair users take preference, that shouldn't even be a question. It wouldn't kill the bus drivers to be a bit more helpful around my way, though.

This is close to my heart being a regular bus user. Where I live only around 70% of the buses are accessible anyway which is a pita. I have only seen one wheelchair user on the bus in 5 years. It's hard enough with a pushchair, I imagine people in wheelchairs somehow avoid the whole misery of when the feck will you get home.

I would always move/get off for a wheelchair btw, folding with a 4 month old (plus 2 older children, and usually lots of shopping) isn't really an option unless dp is with me. The sign clearly states that the space must be vacated if a wheelchair user boards, I think this is fair enough really, I do have some element of choice, could use a sling etc.

The thing that gets on my tits though is people sitting in the wheelchair/pushchair spaces on a half empty bus and then staring at you gormlessly when confronted with your pram/wheelchair wishing to occupy said space. Not to mention the "I walked for miles in my day" brigade.

Well yes I will walk the 6 miles or so home with my tired 3 year old trailing behind, that's obviously a valid option .

We (my sister and I) have come across some really rude pushchair princesses (including a woman who's child was at least 4 and should not have been in a pushchair), and the woman who thought her shopping in a buggy was in anyway important.

On the whole though people are helpful.
Buses are getting better, we have still never got mum on a train and the tube is impossible.

I honour mrsbean for getting off the bus; if she does that before the driver has time to shout 'no space on the bus', then I would have no problem. But I've never met a mum like her. And buses don't run that frequently here. And they are frequently packed. And last time I took dd's wheelchair onto an (empty) bus, the driver took one look and said 'that will have to come off if someone gets on with a pushchair'

I am old enough to remember taking a pram on buses before there was low floor access. I remember exactly how flustered I got- and I still think it's a walk in the park compared to taking disabled child around on public transport. A baby is so easy to lift. They don't weight much. And a baby is not in pain, so you don't have to worry about handling them- unlike my disabled teen. And the baby doesn't understand any sarky comments made by fellow passengers so it's not going to feel humiliated.