Was I being unreasonable not to fold my pushchair when travelling on a bus?

[mummycake]

I have recently read an article in the news of the world by veteran journalist Carole Malone who debated whether parents should be allowed to sit at the front of buses with their pushchairs as she believed that they take the spaces reserved for people with physical disabilities. She stated that pushchairs are designed to be folded flat and should therefore always be folded before going on a bus journey to avoid inconvieniance to others particularly wheelchair users. I used to be a regular public transport user when my son was tiny and rarely folded up my pushchair thinking that these spaces where meant for pushchair users also! Was I wrong to do this, as I would never for one minute want to inconvieniance anyone particularly those who would struggle to sit elsewhere. What are your opinions on this?? This is a genuine thread due to my interest in this matter and the hope that I have not made life difficult for people with more need for the seats than me. By the way I would have always given up my seat for wheelchair users but was concerned that people wouldnt come on the buses if they saw that these spaces were filled!!!

I am somewhat flummoxed by all the posters who wouldn't have the initiative to think of a way of folding a pushchair while accompanied by baby. I used to do this all the time: either I gave baby to the driver to hold or to a passenger to hold or I put her down on the changing mat on the pavement and folded the pushchair before the bus arrived or used a sling or held baby with one hand and folded pushchair with other. There are so many ways...

Now that dd is a tall teenager in a wheelchair I can't use a single one of them

Let's hope that none of you who find travelling with a baby a struggle end up travelling with a disabled child/adult; there is really no comparison.

oh dear more posters who don't think Wheelchairuseres should go out

My daughter had a proper pram, not a push chair when she was a baby, so I couldn't fold it up. We usually walked everywhere anyway though.

I used to take the pram apart to get it on the bus, lucy.

I think it's too dangerous to have a very small baby balanced on your knee/head/shoulder while folding a buggy solo on a packed moving vehicle so I will say YANBU. My ds is only three months and I am not confident or skilled enough in folding the pram to manage it, I get flustered enough on the rare trips I take to town on the bus. I wonder if I had to fold up how I would manage - I am not a driver and the fact I can just push on and push off was great in giving me the confidence to get out of the house when he was two months or so and I was spending all day alone in my home with no adult company. I would move off the bus if a wheelchair user needed the bus and in fact did so yesterday.

Just sling the babies sling the toddlers leave the pushchair at home, sit on the back of the bus (you can even sit upstairs with above method) and then everyone is happy

No no, mrsbean, you take the child out and fold the pushchair before you get on the bus. Or give the child to a passenger/the driver to hold. Absolutely not unsafe.

The problem with the wheelchair bound passenger having to get off the bus is that the same situation is likely to be replicated on the next bus. And the next bus.

If you think it takes a lot of confidence to leave the house with a baby- do you think you would have more confidence if you were in a wheelchair? Or even the carer of someone in a wheelchair? Contrary to popular belief, disability does not convey instant magical powers making people better able to cope with stressful situations than others.

I lived in New York City when DS was born, and it was the law to fold your buggy on the bus, regardless of space/age of child/how full the bus was
. I and my friends were all quite adept at it after a few months. My main point is, though, that we purposely chose buggies that could be easily folded with one hand while holding baby in the other. (Maclarens etc were popular anyway, as they were neat to store in our tiny apartments too!). People seem to think that just because they have a big, bulky pram, the bus should make room for them, or even wheelchair users should make room for them. Selfish!
If you know you are going to use the bus a lot, get a small foldable buggy and a sling.

No cory, I think you misread my post.. I would get off the bus if there was someone waiting at a stop with a wheelchair AND I did so yesterday. I saw the lady and her child in the wheelchair as we rounded the corner so I just got off and waited for the next bus.

I'm not comfortable with giving my boy to strangers to hold just yet.. Also, I don't live in London so very often when I'm at a bus stop I am the only one there.. so I would find it very difficult to manage the pram. When ds gets to the stage that I am comfortable with him going in something like a McClaren, then I would, but right now I am happier with him being in his pram so he can face me.

It is probably different if you live somewhere where the buses are packed.. but where I live and when I travel (which is not that frequently anyway) the competition for spaces on buses is always between pushchairs. Yesterday was the first time since my baby was born that there has been a wheelchair on the bus.

My hauck infinity doesn't fold down. The seat comes off and the chassis folds, but it takes more room when taken apart, not less.
I wouldn't go near a bus with it though, I have another buggy for that.

Our buses have a sign up, its quite clear (not to mention reasonable)
"this space is intended for wheelchair users. It may be used by ONE occupied buggy if not used for intended purposes. A buggy must vacate the space if needed for a wheelchair Please be considerate to fellow passengers"

AND come to think of it only twice has there even been another pushchair on the bus! So why would I fold the pram to make space for nonexistent wheelchairs and other pushchairs when they're not there and it's a bus with designates spaces for buggies/prams? That's just silliness.

I had a big silver cross pram for my daughter, not very practical I know, but It was impossible to dismantle it, with a tiny baby.
If a disabled person wanted the space though, we would've got off and either waited for another bus, or walked. (It was my choice to buy a pram like that after all)

I hardly ever used the bus with the pram, so I never actualy experienced a situation like this.

As the mother of a ten month old baby and also professionally a carer for people who have disabilities there is no comparison between getting out and about with them both. With a baby you have choices of how to transport them, and some are more appropriate for different environments and modes of transport and you choose accordingly. A baby can go where any able bodied person can walk to without any problems at all. Hell I've even taken my wee one hiking half way up mountains until scrambling ruled out walking.

As a carer for a person with disabilities there is no choice, the person has their wheelchair and that is all. It is hard enough as it is to get around when you are a wheel chair user as it is, most urban environments are not designed with wheelchair access in mind and are a constant obstacle course. Some places are impossible to get to physically or because of unelightened attitudes. Positive discrimination is necessary to make travel possible for many.

I think the point that disabled people are people too who are able to be considerate and take turns is a well meaning one. But ultimately comes from ignorance of the reality of disability. Not every wheelchair user is a well educated articulate adult who can make their own choices. Not all wheelchair users are using public transport for leisure or out of choice. You need to leglislate for all of them. And for every wheelchair user who is happy and proud to be able to give up their space to the unconfident young mother with her monster buggy, there are several with complex needs, time pushed carers, medical appointments or even no desire to give up one of their few legal rights to access.

There are 70 odd seats on each bus for the able bodied and only one space for a wheelchair user on each bus. Leave your pram at home, be prepared to fold it or walk! Tis simple!

ive always folded my pushchair and i managed with shopping, baby and a toddler! buses didnt have these spaces before so people had to fold pushchairs!

I'm agog at some people's sense of entitlement. The "I got on the bus first so the wheelchair user will have to wait for the next one" is so crass. Where is the empathy in that? It amazes me that people rock through life with so little thought for other people. Ever thought about what it might be like to be in a wheelchair? You can't fold it and make space. Ever thought about how difficult it is to get to the bus stop in the first place when you're in a wheelchair? Ever thought about how much steel it probably takes to get a bus when you're in a wheelchair and to know that you're going to have to navigate ramps and corners and the open stares of people.

I know all of this because my boyfriend at university was in a wheelchair (car accident/paralysed from mid chest down) and life was tricky. He got on and did stuff as best as he could but a lot of the everyday stuff was a struggle.

Fold your pushchair or get off and walk. Wheelchair users have first rights, regardless of whether they get on the bus before or after you. You may think that's not fair and it should be first come first served but trust me, it's fair. Making someone in a wheelchair wait for the next bus because you've got too much shopping stored to fold your pram is just a rubbish excuse. Even if they could get on the next bus (assuming it isn't filled with astounding numbers of unfoldable pushchairs!) have you any idea of the logistics involved in getting out and about in a wheelchair - propelling yourself around the place? It's a long time spent on a short journey.

Odds are if you were in a wheelchair for even a day you'd agree.

I travelled to America with my ex boyfriend and we were amazed at how 'wheelchair friendly' the country and the people were. No one stared or made comments, people were helpful. It seemed 'normal' for him to be in a wheelchair. Here you're both invisible AND a second class citizen. Stuff like this really gets my goat.

I really don't see the issue with NOT folding up a pram/pushchair if you are prepared to get off the bus to make way for someone with a wheelchair.

I really don't see why, if it is convenient to push a pram on the bus and it is NOT - at that time - getting in anyone's way, why there would be any issue with it at all.

I have travelled on buses with my friend and her disabled mum and I work with young people with learning difficulties so I am highly conscious of the need for disability to be visible and respected in our society.

BUT

I am not going to take to folding my pram while my baby is tiny just so that other people who have no idea of my intentions can sit and approve of my consideration for others. Instead, I will continue to BE considerate by getting OFF the bus if I am in the way of a person with a disability.

agree tis a hassle folding your pram, and there's little point in doing it premptively if there is space for you. I've only folded my pram a couple of times in my ds's little life, but that's because I can't be arced, I use my sling if I'm planning on getting a bus, or I get off to make way.

i'd like to know what people did before buses had spaces for wheelchairs/pushchairs? they didnt when my first was born and thats why i had to buy a little buggy and fold it up to get on!

Nattnoobies, I suspect they didn't take very little babies very far.

When I was 17, I nannied for my aunt in Dublin for a Summer and I used to have to take her toddler and 8/9 month old on the bus sometimes. I had a foldy buggy for the little one and had to hold the little fella by the hand as I struggled with it and a wriggly baby. It was a NIGHTMARE. My experience then was that very few people would help out, there was virtually no space for the folded buggy and there were frequently terribly flustered, hot-faced moments as we embarked or disembarked.

So.. I think it's great that it has become more convenient for young mums and ESSENTIAL that it has become more accommodating for people with disabilities. The fact it used to be terrible is a moot point.

And old mums too

I wasn't 17 quite that long ago

Prams under the bus and a pair of extra hands sounds great. Combine that with some designated wheelchair seating and you're on to a winner.

I've been getting on buses with a maclaren for a year now and in that time I haven't once seen a wheelchair user on the bus, not once.

If a wheelchair user wanted to get on, I would move/get off to ensure they could use the designated space. I've also moved/got off a few times when an elderly person has got on and just waited for the next bus.

That said, if the buggy/elderly/disabled (as labelled) space is empty I'll get on with my buggy and would rather get off than fold it up TBH. I'm pg again and can't hold my 12mo for long and she can't stand so I don't have much choice really.