Was I being unreasonable not to fold my pushchair when travelling on a bus?

[mummycake]

I have recently read an article in the news of the world by veteran journalist Carole Malone who debated whether parents should be allowed to sit at the front of buses with their pushchairs as she believed that they take the spaces reserved for people with physical disabilities. She stated that pushchairs are designed to be folded flat and should therefore always be folded before going on a bus journey to avoid inconvieniance to others particularly wheelchair users. I used to be a regular public transport user when my son was tiny and rarely folded up my pushchair thinking that these spaces where meant for pushchair users also! Was I wrong to do this, as I would never for one minute want to inconvieniance anyone particularly those who would struggle to sit elsewhere. What are your opinions on this?? This is a genuine thread due to my interest in this matter and the hope that I have not made life difficult for people with more need for the seats than me. By the way I would have always given up my seat for wheelchair users but was concerned that people wouldnt come on the buses if they saw that these spaces were filled!!!

"So, the wheelchair user, who doesn't have a choice but be in their wheelchair, has to not bother getting the bus because someone can't/won't fold? Those spaces were designed for wheelchairs. If they are not needed, then they are available to buggies."

No, don't put words in my mouth. I'm just not sure about kicking off customers who have paid their money to take the bus for whatever reason, so that someone else can get on halfway through their journey.

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here so would appreciate sensible replies and not flaming but if you're waiting for a bus and there is no room, it goes by and you wait for the next one. Surely that should apply to everyone? And I'm not talking about pushchairs particularly. If the bus was full would you expect some people standing to get off so a wheelchair user could get on? People always stand in the wheelchair space. I'm guessing not and that's what bothers me, that you would advocate someone being kicked off because they had a child that needed transporting which is what it comes down to. Isn't everybody entitled to a certain level of consideration?

FWIW I no longer use buses, but I did for many many years although I didn't have children then.

For over 2 years my dd2 was not able to weight bear due to a hip problem and was in a Maclaren major (technically a wheelchair).

i had many arguments with mums of grinning wide awake toddlers - much easier to hold one of them under your arm than a 6 year old.

Luckily she is on her feet again. The buses of Glasgow are currently a safer place!

Rockbird, wheelchairs have priority. If your pushchair can't fold it's your problem - either get a pushchair that's suitable for the bus or get off.

In support of Rockbird, I too feel a little discomfort at the thought - wheelchair users are people too, who are also perfectly able to be considerate of other bus users. If a mother and child can get off and wait for the next bus, why can't a disabled person also wait for the next bus?

A disabled person isn't guaranteed room on the bus - if someone in a wheelchair is already taking the place then they'd have to wait for the next bus.

I expect that the problem is very rare - people are usually very reasonable.

In fact - those are the rules - apart from accessiblity, a wheelchair user has no more right to be on the bus than anyone else:

www.dft.gov.uk/transportforyou/access/buses/pubs/conduct/conductofdriversinspectorsa n5991

Where other passengers are occupying the wheelchair space you should ask them to move to allow a wheelchair user to board. You do not have to let the wheelchair user on if the carrying capacity - seated or standing - would then be exceeded. Other passengers on the bus aren't obliged to move, and you're not expected to make them.

Where I am there is a space for a single wheelchair which can also be used as a normal fold down seat or for a buggy if not needed by a wheelchair person.
there is also a sepearte space for pushchairs.
I have never folded my buggy as ive never needed to, and although i would fold/move for a wheelchair, I do think its a bit cheeky to make a person get off whos paid fair and been first on, what happens when its the second stop in a 6 stop route and has had their ticket already punched, then they have to pay another lot to get another bus! that certainly is not fair, and i don't think a wheelchair user would agree with that either!
what also is very annoying is when i get on at the first stop of a new route and an old granny has used up the buggy space using 2 seats for one of those cart things when it could just go in front of her!

Ive also experienced getting on a bus, very few people on, buggy space full with a double, 4 fold up seats other side where wheelchair would go, and a woman sitting right in the middle not moving and also refused when i polietly asked, so i could put my newborn in the right position on the bus. all she had to do was move one space but she wouldn't, so i ended up blocking the gangway. - which she also moaned about!

Another thing, i had spd for a long time and couldn't manouver well or use my legs to keep me in place as a bus moved, so i wouldn't of been able to hold my DC safely, but i guess no one thinks about possible things affecting mums who use the bus ( unless visable). - i would of walked everywhere otherwise, but simply not possible.

Why can't a perfectly able mother fold her pushchair?

Unless the mother has some disability, she can fold her pushchair or use a sling. Someone in a wheelchair doesn't have those options.

Where are all of these buggies that do not fold?
I have owned a lot of buggies, pushchairs and prams. Not one of them has not folded.
I even used to fold my double nipper and store it on the rack. I had that from when they were 5 months and 18 months old. It really wasn't that difficult to fold it and lift it onto the rack. Sit toddler on seat , hold baby under arm , fold buggy, lift onto rack.
If a person in a wheelchair needs to use a bus and you are sitting there with your buggy in the space, you fold it or get off the bus. you choose to use an unsuitable buggy on a bus , they don't choose to be in a wheelchair. They can't just get out and move to a seat , buggy users can fold the buggy and move so just bloody fold the buggy.
The people who refuse to fold the buggy tend to have their baskets full of stuff and bags on the handles so they just cba removing it all to fold.

i don't use any shopping bags as its bad for the environment, i chuck everything under the buggy, yet in doing this good deed i am then penalised when i can't fold the buggy?!
also does anybody know what happens when you have to get off the bus because of no space and a wheelchair person gets on, do you get an extra ticket before you get off, or do you have to pay again for the next bus?

Re-usable bag? I use re-usable bags or one of those Phil and teds parcel trays.

You don't get another ticket. On the buses up here the sign says that the space is for a buggy or a wheelchair, if a wheelchair requires the space , the buggy must be folded. If you don't fold it then you get off the bus, if the driver is being nice they let the lazy gits stand in the aisle with their buggy full of stuff.

The arrogance of people who say "I can't be expected to fold my buggy" and would rather someone in a wheelchair has to wait for another bus!

How dare you, lazy gits?!
I don't use a re-useable bag as it doesn't fit under the buggy.
why should i have to pay extra?
if the bus driver wouldn't refund me the ticket or give me a new one so i could catch the next bus i wouldnt get off.

I find it hard to believe this is a huge problem in daily life. I don't drive; I can't count the number of times I have taken a buggy on the bus. I can only remember two occasions when a wheelchair user got on and of course they took priority - they expected to, I expected them to, everybody knew the rules.

Can I get a badge to say I am "allowed" to not fold my double pram? I am still suffering with SPD and have a (just) 3yo and a 4mo, and people glare at me when I get on the bus with my double. I have even had people make comments when I have had DD1 in the single and DD2 in the sling, with the changing bag on the handle of the buggy. When there has been plenty of room on the bus. I would have no chance of managing to lift DD1 (who tends to sleep in the buggy for the long journey into Newcastle), fold the buggy, lift the bag and buggy into the luggage rack and then manage to keep DD1 under control with the baby in the sling and painful hips that mean I can't stand on a moving bus.

Meh. There just needs to be more and better buses. It is hard though, the only way to improve public transport that I can see is to run at a loss for a couple of years until car users realise the public transport has improved and start using it.

When my DS was a baby (late 1980s) there were NO buggy or wheelchair spaces on buses, just a raised luggage rack at the front of the bus. If you wanted to go on the bus then you folded the buggy and carried your child along with your bags, shopping or whatever. There was no other choice.

I can't believe some people think they are so hard done by. It's not that difficult - I did it nearly every flipping day!

My pushchair won't fold down. I don't use public transport very often - I walk. When I take a bus I am prepared to leave if a wheelchair user will get on the bus but i get a ticket from the bus driver before I leave so I don't have to pay again when I take the next bus. I also make sure I travel during the off peak times.

There's enough space for a wheelchair and a pram on some busses, though.

It is clearly stated on the busses that pushchairs have to be folded if a wheelchair user needs to use the area.

How dare I? Erm I dare.
You can buy cloth bags that fold down to the size of a purse. I own several.
I do find it to be lazy that people think that something they are pretty much using as a shopping trolley should take priority over an adult or child in a wheelchair or a major who can't actually walk!
The way that I think of it is that all of the annoying issues caused by buggies and immobile children are an inconvience to me for a few years. A person who can not walk has that every day for the rest of their lives , so yes they should always take priority over people who have a child in a buggy.
Maybe I feel like that because I have relatives who live the the inconvience of being in a wheelchair who don't have the option of folding it and walking to a seat.

The other day a woman got on the bus with one of those double decker pushchairs. It was a busy bus, and people who got on later had to stand because she did not fold the pushchair down. She took her toddler out, and the toddler sat on a seat. She took her baby out ( and later put the baby on her knee when she sat down). She then picked her dog up, and put the dog in the bottom pushchair seat. So people were standing for the benefit of her dog!

Part of the problem is that some parents are selfish, and because they behave badly all parents could be penalised, as the government is looking at changing the rules on buses, in response to complaints from wheelchair users.

Because the wheelchair space is at the front of the bus where we live, mums tend to put the pushchair there and sit in the adjacent front seats to be near the baby. This means they are using up the seats that are meant to be for elderly and disabled people.

While we may think wheelchair users hardly ever get on buses, think of it the other way around. If you are in a wheelchair, almost every time you get on the bus, there will be a pushchair in the wheelchair space, and the parent may or may not be nice about moving it.

Buses that don't have steps in my area came in after I had my first child. If a woman had said then she couldn't get on the bus because she was incapable of folding a pushchair, it would have seemed ludicrous. People just did it. It was nice when the new buses made it easier, but people have abused the courtesy.

Hmm so what about the person in wheelchair that the journey starts half way through bus route and finds the mums with pushchairs bordered first and the driver goes with the sorry love they already paid so you got to wait

This happened a lot where we used to live a lot !!!! And I'm not talking where buses are every 5 mins or so how long should I wait in the cold and the rain with ds

Thank feck I now live in area where the bus driver are sensiable and realise ds does not have a choice of being carried and folding chair

And you wonder why wheelchair useres do not use public transport much

It is amazing how little people notice though.

Dd2 would be sitting in her Major, in her school uniform, reading her reading book, and I would get tuts and rolled eyes (mainly from buggy-using toddler mums but also from the "can't that child walk" brand of (mainly) elderly ladies).

Did they really think I had her in an obviously oversized disabled buggy for fun?

Just use a sling and a ruck sack if your planning to use the bus. If you can't because you're planning on carrying something heavier than you could in a rucksack, then either take a sling and big bag to allow you to easily store shopping off the pram incase you need to fold. If you don't want to have to fold, then get more excersize and walk!