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AIBU?

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Original poster

To hate the whole 'Naughty Chair' method

166 replies

TheLeftFelanji · 13/03/2010 22:33

My friend uses this for her child (4). It just doesn't seem to work and the whole thing is so chaotic! She calls him 'naughty' ALL the time and drags him and threatens him all day. Do you want to sit on the Naughty Chair????!!! Ok, THAT'S IT!!! get on the Naughty chair!!!!!!

I am starting to feel really tense before I go round, it's a battleground. Can someone please explain if this works and how it's supposed to work and if you use this method? ....without me reading having to read a ton of toddler handbooks.

Much appreciated xx

OP posts:
BritFish · 14/03/2010 00:43

piprabbit
im not sure how you think the kids knowing right from wrong is making them 'harder and tougher than they need to be'?
and my kids do know i love them, i tell them i love them a lot, and they know that, i dont need to mention anything like that at all when im telling them off surely?

i like to prepare my kids for the real world, and not bring them up telling them 'its okay if you throw heavy things at your baby sister, but id prefer it if you didnt do that again snugglebaby'
no, its NOT okay, stop doing that.

our job as a parent is to teach them RIGHT from WRONG. and those boundaries need to be made CLEAR.
if you act okay when your child does something wrong, how will they learn that its wrong?

TheLadyEvenstar · 14/03/2010 00:44

but making someone sad and being naughty are 2 different things.

You are sad when someone dies, thats not them being naughty, children need to know the difference.

Yes society is hard and tough and it does toughen children up. BUT we have a responsibility as parents to keep our children in check and if that means punishing them by sitting them on the NAUGHTY chair/spot/stair them so be it. TBH i prefer this method than taking a toy away because they have other toys to play with, they cannot get back the minutes spent on the Naughty spot reflecting on their behaviour.

And it won't affect them to be told they have been naughty.

piprabbit · 14/03/2010 00:44

Britfish it's possible to reprimand a child, make it crystal clear that you disapprove of what they have done and tell them you don't expect any repeat performances without telling they are irredeemably naughty.

Being labelled probably has next to no effect on most children, because it is something they will only hear very occassionally. However the OP says her friend calls her child naughty ALL the time (her caps) and continually threatens to use the naughty chair. It must be wearing and depressing for the child. Is the OPs friend taking time inbetween the shouting to tell her child what he does well, and how he could earn her approval instead?

piprabbit · 14/03/2010 00:53

TheLadyEvenstar it sounds as though we discipline our children in very similar ways, although I prefer call it a time out area because I do think that continually calling a child naughty/thick/fat/lazy etc. can have an impact on self-confidence. Just like continually saying 'why can't you be more clever/good/polite/quiet like your Dsis/Dbro' can also be damaging.
It's not a habit I want to let myself get into.

BritFish · 14/03/2010 00:53

i dont tell them they are 'irredeemably' naughty, what are you on about.
telling a child 'stop being naughty' is not saying 'YOU ARE SO BAD. BAD CHILD you will never ever be good again and i dont love you and society will hate you because you are soooo bad'
there is a difference. a bit one.

i would like to suggest that the OP's friend's child gets excited when they are visitors, and because of the judgy-judgyness of people today, she feels like she must be seen to be doing SOMETHING to stop her child's behaviour, and they have a perfectly normal relationship the rest of the time?

runnybottom · 14/03/2010 00:54

Brava Britfish.

Some of these responses make me think of the type of parent I saw in my local park a while back. Mother says to kid (about 4 maybe) "darling, we need to go now" kid says no. She says it again, about every minute for 5-6 mins. Eventually she goes and tries to take his hand, he hit her in the leg and says I hate you, youre a horrible mummy! She kneels down and says "mummy is very sad when you say things like that, I know you don;t mean it".

He smacked her in the face and ran off. She ran after him calling "come back here for a chat, are you ok? Are you feeling sad?"

No dear, he's just a little bollix.

None of my business, i couldn't care less. I'll stick with my bold corner though, thanks all the same.

BritFish · 14/03/2010 01:01

runnybottom-
tomorrow i will make a thread.
"The thread for parents who know that their kids are NOT breakable glass spiderwebs"
as i've rudely hijacked this one

we had a corner. my kids are...balanced, lovely people. okay, im biased. but neither of them are whiny babies or resentful withdrawn sociopaths.
i must have dohe something right eh!

piprabbit · 14/03/2010 01:03

You don't have to tell a child those things. They are very good at hearing what you do say, especially if it is repeated over weeks and months and years, and drawing their own conclusions.

nooka · 14/03/2010 01:04

The thing is that children are very different. I guess the one common thing is that they will all at times be silly/unruly/naughty, some children more than others, for some children it can get very out of control. But they don't all respond to the same techniques (and also some parents really don't take to some of the approaches, as we are all different too), and that's really the problem with some of these approaches turning into mantras. Some children will respond really well to a time out, finding them calming and effective. Some work best with being talked to and don't need anything more. Some parents like strong discipline and find it effective, whilst for others a different approach is better. Lots of different family dynamics, and most of them are really just fine.

My ds had huge temper issues as a small boy, and really none of the techniques commonly used worked. He wouldn't have gone to a naughty place and although we did try time out in his room it was very counterproductive, as I had to pick him up screaming and kicking and put him in his room and hold the door shut (think Toddler Taming) whilst he got more and more angry, upset and wound up until basically he exhausted himself. When there would be lots of tears and hugs and I'm sorries. And we would both be very sorry because it was horrible. But it wouldn't make any difference at all, because he just didn't get cause and effect for many years. We tried reward charts and he would have melt downs if he didn't get stickers. So we went back to ignoring the bad behavior and praising the good, and waited for him to grow up (which he has).

dd on the other hand really didn't need any behaviour management techniques, because she just didn't find life that difficult or lose control very often, so you could just talk her through her frustrations.

BritFish · 14/03/2010 01:06

ah, but you could then argue that telling your child that they are so wonderful and perfect and everyone loves them so much turns them into self centered brats who cant form real relationships because they expect everyone to think they are perfect and to fall madly in love with them instantly.

you see what i mean? its all about balance really.

runnybottom · 14/03/2010 01:06

maybe we are just better at communicating what we mean to them than you are pip?

BritFish · 14/03/2010 01:08

nooka, exactly.
i still maintain kids need to know right from wrong, clearly and strongly.
but every child is different, and how you get the balanced message across is suited to your child.

claw3 · 14/03/2010 01:10

i hate all this 'naughty' this and that.

i dont sit on the 'naughty' settee when im feeling pissed off, wouldnt expect my kids to either.

piprabbit · 14/03/2010 01:16

I was just going to say that it's about balance. Somewhere between agressive, over-bearing parents and weak, passive parents is an effective balance that works for each individual family. Most people I know wobble back and forth trying to find the balance, not getting it right all the time but trying to be the best parents they can be.

I've said before on this thread that I use time out on occassion. I am 100% clear about what my DCs can and can't get away with - and they have very firm boundaries.

Time out is very useful, as so many posters on this thread have been keen to point out. I'm not arguing about that.

But, I still feel that there is a right way and wrong way to do time out - and the OPs friend seems to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick somewhere along the line.

TheLadyEvenstar · 14/03/2010 01:16

I am the first to admit that i over indulged DS1 not wanting him to ever feel left out/different to his peers. BUT his behaviour was brilliant until he was around 5, what happened to the sweet little boy i had? well he had his MMR and i saw the first changes in his behaviour, on top of that my dad, the only male role model he had died, my DS turned from an angel to a naughty boy to an 11yr old who has now been diagnosed with ODD, which his paternal uncles children also have.

Naughty steps never worked, reward charts either, in fact very little works, I don't tell him he is naughty every time he is, i have tried explaining his behaviour is not nice and although he understands what i am saying he seems unable to stop it, or maybe as someone earlier suggested, he could be doing it deliberatly at times. Who actually knows. What i do know is that i have now spent 6 yrs trying different strategies to deal with his behaviour and i am worn out.

I think what i am trying to say is that sometimes things are not as clear as they seem.

DS2 on the other hand being 2 has entered the terrible 2's something i never experienced with DS1...putting him on the naughty step reduces him to a complete melt down where he gets up within a minute sobbing and comes to me and says "Sowwy mummy loves you" and off he goes, am i doing it right or wrong??

TheLadyEvenstar · 14/03/2010 01:17

Claw you are being sent to the naughty corner for swearing, no warning because you are a big girl and should know better. Now off you go no discussion!!

BritFish · 14/03/2010 01:23

TheLadyEvenStar-
how dare you tell her off, how naughty of you. go sit in the naughty corner. where there is a cake.

everyone loves a 'naughty' bit of cake now!

TheLadyEvenstar · 14/03/2010 01:26

Can't i have a sad cake instead?? i don';t want to give the cake a complex now!!

piprabbit · 14/03/2010 01:29

ROFL.

The cake's not naughty and nor are you. Some people might thinking eating cake is naughty behaviour - but how can lemon drizzle be bad? It's definitely very acceptable.

TheLadyEvenstar · 14/03/2010 01:31

oh please don't mention Lemon Drizzle cake it always reminds me of the little Britain sketch

cos it had no nuts

piprabbit · 14/03/2010 01:34

On that note...
I shall toot on my flute and away.

mummychicken · 14/03/2010 08:26

Bertiebotts "Oh, I better not do X or I will have to go on the naughty step".
Surely that is the point - I'd better not kick the cat or I'll end up on the naughty step sounds perfectly resonable to me

Clemette - I don't agree with your limited window. The spot works for my DS (2.5) and I have a friend who threaten her DS with the naughty step because he didn't do the dishes. He still refused to do the dishes so she put him on the step. He got off the step and did the dishes. He was 16 yo!!

Surely kids need to know what is naughty so what's the problem with a "naughty" corner? Use chill out/time out when they are older to understand

damnedchilblains · 14/03/2010 09:01

I totally agree with Britfish, star and mummychicken!

"Definitely humiliating when there are visitors - like in the OP's case and I've been a visitor to a couple of houses when they've been naughty stepping too."

Then children will learn that when visitors come around there are no consequences and they can behave how they like.

"Absolutely agree that explaining things even if it's over and over again, teaching children right from wrong, giving them the attention they need are far better parenting tools than the stuff of reward/punishment, time out, naughty step etc."

The whole point is to punish and explain why you are punishing. You are sitting out here until you calm down, you cannot go to the park because you have done this. If my mom had just kept explaining things to me, I would have just kept doing naughty things and waiting for the "talking to".

The op's friend is implementing the naughty step incorrectly. There is no humiliation, just punishment, she isn't pulling down his pants or calling him obscene names. And by the way "tools" "strategies" and "techniques" all equate to the same thing tis just semantics.

CarmenSanDiego · 14/03/2010 09:19

"I'd better not kick the cat or I'll end up on the naughty step sounds perfectly resonable to me"

Why not, "I'd better not kick the cat because

  • It'll hurt the cat and possibly cause a vet's bill that I will need to pay
  • It'll make the cat hate me and possibly attack me or shy away from me in future
  • I'll feel bad about myself if I hurt the cat
  • Other people will feel indignant and angry on behalf of the cat and may not treat me so positively

There are enough natural consequences that if they are thought through are reason enough to deter a child from doing something.

You'll end up with children feeling ambivalent or numb about the naughty step, then you'll need to think up more 'punishing' techniques for them and so on.

runnybottom · 14/03/2010 09:28

Because a 3 yr old isn't capable of a thought process such as
"* It'll hurt the cat and possibly cause a vet's bill that I will need to pay

  • It'll make the cat hate me and possibly attack me or shy away from me in future
  • I'll feel bad about myself if I hurt the cat
  • Other people will feel indignant and angry on behalf of the cat and may not treat me so positively" ?

They aren't "natural" consequences either as they need to be taught.

You don't know how anyone here uses the naughty step, you have no way of knowing what they will end up with. You aren't qualified to have an opinion on other peoples methods.
And yet you do.