To be pissed off that people who are not academic are branded as thick!

[teamcullen]

Why is it that people/children who are not academically clever are constantly branded as Thick, stupid or the underclass of society.

A person can leave school at 16 with little qualifications and work every day of their lives in McDonalds or a shop or as a labourer. They pay taxes. They contribute to society. Yet people constantly make comments on how you must be thick to work in those proffessions.

There are options in schools for children to take vocational courses, but I am always seeing comments like "No way Id let my DC take a deploma or vocational course." Or those subjects are only for the thick kids!

I understand that if a child is likely to go to uni, they need to take the traditinal route of GCSEs and A levels, but the world ecomony would quickly cease if everybody took this route.

Just because somebody is not academic, does not constitute being thick. Creative skills, patience, common sence, empathy and listening skills to name just a few are things that may not come naturatly to those with letters after their name, but are needed in many proffessions.

If a child who is not academic goes into the world at 16 and works hard in a job which needs no or little qualifications is it not unreasonable to treat tham and their proffession with a bit of respect.

But clemette - not sure where you are going with that .... It sort of infers that you can get a dyslexic diagnosis just to cheat the system and buy extra time in exams? I think a diagnosis by an Education Pyschologist is pretty incontrovertible

You don't have to have a diagnosis of dyslexia to get extra time in exams.

Le Queen 23.09 post.
This is a very good point. I think that the long term implications are not yet understood.

Plumbers can earn 50,000 people with joint honours in poetry & needlework are virtually unemployable.

Really?? I am surprised

I completely agree with LeQueen on this thread but I do have to point out that it is a 'dictionary sitting by my desk' not a dictionary 'sat' by my desk, if we are going to pick people up on grammatical errors!!! (I am not an English graduate btw before anyone picks me up etc etc ).

To quote the department of education: "Dyslexia can usually be confidently diagnosed if a child's reading and writing skills are poor, but their other abilities, such as their understanding of logic, or their verbal skills, are unaffected." Problems with reading and writing affect up to 25% of children (probably more) but schools often now encourage parents to go and get the "label" (and who wouldn't get the extra help if it was there).
People use the term "dyslexia" to describe a certain "type" of person. They assume dyslexics can't spell (many can), they assume they struggle with handwriting (they don't always).As with everything, the diagnosis covers spectrum of people.

You do need to be assessed by a specialist teacher or EP in order to get the special provision, but a formal diagnosis of dyslexia is not the only criterion.

For some of the children I teach, the diagnosis is difficult to make because they are of low general ability apparently.

There are very strict criteria you must meet in order to qualify for extra time in exams.

The idea is not to give unfair advantage to, but rather to remove disadvantage from students whose reading, writing or processing speed hampers their ability to communicate their level of knowledge.

The tests are very stringent, and only certain tests will be accepted as evidence; only a score above or below a certain number will guarantee extra time, a reader or a scribe.

Lots of ways to qualify for extra time in exams - educational needs, physical needs, temporary/permanent disability, emotional issues.

It had nothing to do with my intellectual ability LeQueen, It was more to do with putting my family first before my career. This was the best course of action for me in my circumstances. Of course we are all different and cope in our own ways.

If Millymollymoo wasnt so rude, I wouldnt have explained my reasons for not completing my degree.

This is sort of the whole purpous of the thread.

Just because a person is not perfect at putting pen to paper, does not give others the right to make them feel worthless and stupid.

If a person is not clever to go to university and get a degree and can only do low paid jobs, they shouldnt be made to feel that they are second rate to somebody who has a degree.

Of course this works both ways and I agree there is a lot of inverse snobbery about.

But the reason I started this thread is because I have read quite a few comments on various threads lately which put certain occupations or education routes down.

I have a 10 year old DS who is likely to take one of these routes. He is a lovely hardworking boy with good moral groundings. There are plenty of Young men aroung here going down the criminal route, as they are misguided or they see it as a way out of poverty. I would be very proud of my DS to do any job which provided him with a good honest living.

We all want the best for our DCs and we want them to have easier lives than us, but Ive got no problems of my DCs being working class. Ive also no problems of them climbing the ladder and I would love it that they would never have to worry about a bill comming in. Of course people with degrees can be working class and be in debt as much as a hairdresser.

Nobody can make you feel worthless without your consent, teamcullen.

What is that meant to mean runnybottom?

I have never ever come across this attitude.

well said runny.

Um! runnybottom, have a quick look at page 2 of this thread.

Have just come back and have realised that everyone is now churning.

Well Nick Griffin went to Downiing College, Cambridge University and look at him. I take it that is classed as RG?

Interesting that exam factory, private schools churn out lots of those educated in RG universities. You only have to look at the likes of the children of my mum's boss at work to see how intellectually challenged some of these children are...and misguided.

Sorry for typos (wink)

I dont feel inferior LeQueen, I dont like the comments that some people make, regarding certain career and educational paths.

My DS is likely to take one of these paths and comments such as "NO way my DD is doing that subject" or "well people working in childcare are not educated enough to ues words such as ThankYou" pisses me off!

I certainly dont want him to grow up feeling inferior to his sister who is most likely to go on to uni.

Milly, I don't think anyone aspires to working in MacD's - I was using it as an example of a crappy job to illustrate my point. It was an extreme example I uses so that I could not offend anyone by their choice of jobs. I have been a legal secretary for most of my career and TBH I won't pretend it is an intellectually challenging one.

I also think this is probably not a nice discussion to be having because no-one really wants to think of themselves as being thick nowadays. However, there is such a thing as an IQ test - which there is no point in having unless there are some people at the bottom.

What an IQ test does not measure are social ability and common sense which are just as important in a person's ability to get on in life.

What I am trying to say is that intelligence on its own is not enough to be successful.

I just came back to this thread and cant believe how nasty it has turned.

LeQueen you seem to have spend the last couple of days trying to put teamcullen down. Hmm what does this say about you?

May i remind you a quote from Socrates?
'The one who is really intelligent never says that he is'.

Have a look at her profile and all will be revealed.

Still, at least she has a profile.

God, I hope all the people who work at McDonalds are not reading this thread.

Especially the ones who started there when they were 16 and now own two or three franchises and are rolling in dough.

Ah ok just seen the profile

I was busy last night saving lives in A&E so I'm late to this thread.

As Lequeen says, I suffer an enormous amount of emotional trauma, relieved only because I have access to the drugs trolley.

I think it's something to do with the company I keep.

I'm pretty sure thats not a Socrates quote, laquitar even indirect. Perhaps you mean "wisest is he who knows what he does not know" ?
But then Socrates also said "Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for."

Valued education highly, did Socrates. An unexamined life and all that......