To be pissed off that people who are not academic are branded as thick!

[teamcullen]

Why is it that people/children who are not academically clever are constantly branded as Thick, stupid or the underclass of society.

A person can leave school at 16 with little qualifications and work every day of their lives in McDonalds or a shop or as a labourer. They pay taxes. They contribute to society. Yet people constantly make comments on how you must be thick to work in those proffessions.

There are options in schools for children to take vocational courses, but I am always seeing comments like "No way Id let my DC take a deploma or vocational course." Or those subjects are only for the thick kids!

I understand that if a child is likely to go to uni, they need to take the traditinal route of GCSEs and A levels, but the world ecomony would quickly cease if everybody took this route.

Just because somebody is not academic, does not constitute being thick. Creative skills, patience, common sence, empathy and listening skills to name just a few are things that may not come naturatly to those with letters after their name, but are needed in many proffessions.

If a child who is not academic goes into the world at 16 and works hard in a job which needs no or little qualifications is it not unreasonable to treat tham and their proffession with a bit of respect.

LeQueen I do see your argument: I thini it is the difference between valuing peoples talents and seeing it as the only factor, or indeed assuming that only educated people are educatable: clearly thats not the case! Plenty of people with talents happily working in jobs with no real need for certificates: after all, prior to DH's degree - in - progress success (first predicted) he did not have a lesser IQ.

Having a certificate / talkent / skill does not make you a more valid or better person, it does mean that you should be proiud of what you are able to do..... same as every hairdresser (I could not do that), HCA or mechanic.

The difference is, Lequeen, the RG graduate tends to have a big pot of money which softens the impact of the Tesco shelf stacker judging them

The shelf stacker does not (usually) have the power to make decisions which affect the RG graduate's life in the same way that the RG graduate does.

LeQueen. One of our relatives (on dh's side) is Vice Chancellor of a Russell Group University. Even he would have a good laugh at your attitude to the sanctity of the RG.

You write off non-RG universities at your peril. In student satisfaction surveys they often fair better than RG institutions and, as my cousin (undergrad Oxbridge), recently pointed out, it's not at all satisfactory when one's tutor is more concerned with their research work than the welfare and achievement of their undergraduates. Not an uncommon occurrence with the RG.

Ah LeQ if only that were guaranteed for RG universities eh? My XP may well have had some cash to hand to me rather than taking everything I had including the bloody wardrobe my Mum gave me.

In the CV of life an RG education is a few extra points to the list, but there are other ways of getting those and indeed of wasting it all.

AccioPinotGrigio my brother, who used to a lecturer (he is now overseas) said exactly the same thing recently to me when I was asking his advice about university choices for DD.

Also, interestingly DD emailed the admissions office of a RG unbiversity recently because she is making A level choices at the moment. One of her choices is a BTEC which many of you would sneer at. She wanted to know that by taking this (in addition to 3 other A levels) that she would not be ruling out any options. Interestingly, not only did they say it was an acceptable choice, but that it would prove to be an advantage for at least one of her possible degree choices.

OP, I did read the childcare thread which one was one of the ones which prompted this thread and I agree some of the comments on it were shameful, especially about the childcarers.

To get back to the main point (I've skim read), I know there are people who assume I'm thick because of what I do.
Sure, it annoys me, but I know I'm not thick, I know I'm doing what I do for my family.
I hope to have a better job at some point, but first, I have to get people to look beyond what I did when DD was small, and what I do for a living now, to see why I did it, but that I'm capable of more.
I don't have a degree, I'm certainly no academic but I'm not remotely thick, a bit dim at times, act like a 5yr old at others, but no, not thick.

Snort. LeQ, I don't even think that's a given anymore. Times have changed since you were an undergraduate you know.

Just wanted to say I have never encountered the attitude the OP mentioned - until today. I have recently become an Avon seller to supplement my student loan and went to collect a brochure from a very big house on our street. The woman at the door was rude, dismissive and snobbish, yet when I met her at parents evening last year when I was teaching her daughter she almost simpered at me for having the title Dr. I had DD with me do couldn't really say what I meant to, but there is part of ne that really wants to go back and confront her. She judged me on what I did and what that says to her about my position in society. If people in other jobs face this often then no wonder they are pissed off!!

I used to get it a lot, non grad fiancee of RG / private snob*

Now I have a higher class degree than him and he was refused a aplce on an MA yet I am doing well on mine

I was always told by him I was too thick / common / low rent for a university and I wholeheartedly thank him, as visuaising shoving said degree up his arse motivated me through many rough patches!

*I know not all RG private types are like him, he was just an unpleasant man with similar friends

LeQueen, would you also think it a waste of talent if a mechanically gifted child ended up as a Vice Chancellor? Or it is only certain talents that must not be wasted?

Am interested because two of my brothers dropped out of university/chose not to go, in order to nurture another, non-academic talent instead and both have been very happy and successful in their chosen career paths.

Personally, I am too old to know of RG universities but have now been given clarification.

I went to a Red Brick university (same s**t, different colour). I still believe that many, many children flourish and their ambition goes way beyond financial gain (or proving thay have a first in classics from Oxon)

For the record cory the poster you mention has a PHD in fabrication.

"He is without doubt one of the most intelligent people I know, has a brain like a computer and has fantastic general knowledge. IQ wise, he's probably on a par with myself"

Well, you're not one for hiding your light under a bushel, that's for sure...

clemette you have the power.

I don't know whether Avon make anything really embarrassing but surely invention is not beyond your talents

LeQ, my sis went to the same polytechnic as you (I am sure)went to a state school (but has a great career). Was this a RG university? I think not. Maybe it was someone else (wink)