to think that the tories actually have nothing to offer families?

[lowrib]

I'm not a staunch Labour supporter by any means, and I certainly don't agree with all they've done - but if you look at what they've done for families, they've actually implemented a lot of things that make a real difference in practical terms, like

• professionalising the child minding profession
• increasing maternity leave pay from 6 months to 9
• introducing child tax credits & working tax credits
• providing more nursery school places
• putting in practical measures to make it easier for children to stay on at school post-16

And probably lots more things (anyone?)

The tories keep going on about helping families, and 'mending our broken society' but how exactly do they plan to do that?

We don't know where their promised cuts will hit, but personally I feel very uneasy. I really don't trust them to leave families alone, and think it will be absolutely disastrous to see all this unpicked. For some families these things are simply convenient, but for many children, it's what makes it possible for them to live a decent family life.

AIBU?

duh to original OP..

I have no problem with higher paid public sector workers taking a pay cut. Probably those on 30K plus.

I can remember riven - it was wrtten on my pay slip when i was working back in 1986 the income tax was high on my earning as I had to pay NI contributoions on top of this so was losing nearly 40% of my low wages.

By 1989 the tax had started to fall and whilst in one job come down about 2% in one go and I was only there a year - curiuosly I earned the same on that evening shift for 20 hours per week as I did in 2005 working 20 hours per week but I didn't have to pay as much tax in 2005

By 1990 when I went back to work for the same company - but on a full time day shift, my tax bill had come down again It was around 22% by this time and has stayed there.

Tory's want low income tax and labour wanted higher - that has shifted due to the good times and the fact labour tax by the backdoor and not the need to put the tax on incoem which is alway unpopular (cos you see it clearly in your payslip each month) and liberal is more honest on the income tax and at the last election wanted to raise income tax by 1%

At least with the Tories they do what it says on the tin i.e. they let hard working higher earners keep more of their own money and reward thrift and savings. OTOH Labour are supposed to support the lower paid, pensioners, etc. but they do not - their stealth taxes hit the poorest hardest, they removed the 10% tax band (doubling my tax bill at a stroke), GB himself raided the private pensions of millions of people trying to fund their own old age. They have bailed out the banks with OUR money and yet the guilty parties, both on the Bank and regulatory sides, still have jobs and bonuses or golden goodbyes, whilst small savers receive a 0.1% interest reward for their thrift.

I will never be a Conservative, their policies do not appeal at all. But I HATE the Labour Party because they have betrayed the people who worked/voted to put them into power, only to see the Labour MPs line their own pockets, cosy up to big business and celebrities and jockey for knighthoods.

A plague on both their houses - I will vote SNP.

There's quite a lot of scope to cut public sector jobs in the UK. In England 25% of people work in the public sector. In Scotland, it's 33%. Not all of these people are teachers, doctors, firemen etc. Many are part of a bloated middle management created by labour and dealing with mysterious things such as "policy" and "strategy" on things like ID cards which never seem to happen.On top of that the government wastes a load more money on consultancy from private firms to help out these public sector strategists.

In a well run economy, it does not make sense to have that many people dependent on the state for employment. However, politically, for labour, it makes a lot of sense. When public sector workers know that the Tories are anti "big government", they're not going to vote Tory. When the country is booming, why not take the tax revenues and create yourself a nice little power base.

Also, I'd be interested to hear what people see as the alternatives to cutting spending.

Please dont say

1. Increase government debt, or
2. Raise tax rates

or I will be unable to take you seriously

To cut public spending-

Prisons- make them work- not 24/7 but make them at least pay for their keep- i.e factory etc- it costs 100k a year to keep just 1 person in there.

Community service- make it swifter- crime to punishment and make it work for that particular community i.e. filling pot holes/ graffiti/ meals on wheels oap's (obviously with good supervision

Police Service- combine certain forces- ie MDp and transport- both focus on mainly anti terror and work well together
-cut paper work

• make it easier for working mums to get back to work within their own force- they will save millions on training
• nationalise the vetting system

CTF's - get rid of them- £250 for even the poorest of famalies will make little diference in 18 years- perhaps have a small ammount that parents can opt in on saving directly from their wages/ benefits - like national insurance

Raise tuition fees for forgien students

Give incentives for people in council houses for adding value to them

I have no idea how but stop the house price rises and make it achieveable for people to get on the housing ladder

I think the house price thing has also led to a lot of people resenting benefits/ council houses.
As (in some cases) with a huge mortgage for a shit house you are living on little more than someone on benefits in social housing- hence they can afford sky etc and you can't.

how would the house price issue be fixed?

In order to fix it, the concept of a housing 'ladder' has to go.

Because housing is seen here as a commodity to trade, not the essential that it is: shelter.

People here are groomed to buy something with the express purpose of selling it on for profit and getting something bigger.

This way of thinking is recent.

In our parents' generation, you bought maybe one or two homes over the course of your life.

And anyone who thinks living in social housing is a luxurious alternative to having a mortgaged home is living in cloud cuckooland.

one way of trying to fix it is by building loads more houses. Supply and demand, the price will fall as the supply increases.

the argument for voting Tory is that they will be better at bringing financial stability to the country. They believe that by reducing taxes on entrepreneurs they encourage the creation of wealth and that feeds down to benefit everyone.

I remember Margaret Thatcher selling off the family silver to fund tax reductions for the wealthy and dismantling British industry to the point where we are now dependent on financial services. Britain's favourable taxation of the rich led directly to the inflated payments to those in financial services that have fueled the huge rises in house prices. They have now caused the credit crunch. However much Tories try to blame this on Labour I really doubt many bankers are Labour supporters - it is Tories who screwed the country and Labour that allowed it.

The Labour party are also responsible for the ridiculous situation we are in with services for children where e.g. parents are unable to photograph their own children. The tax credit system, whatever its faults, encourages people to work.

I have difficulty deciding who to vote for as neither party have much to recommend them. I shall probably vote for the party most likely to unseat our local MP because he is an arrogant, patronising pig who does nothing for his constituents.

which ones? if they need renovation, they could be sorted and put back on the market

I think councils are allowed to take ownership of houses if they are unlived in for 6 or 9 months, they have even taken ownership of certain MPs' houses. The boarded up council houses are either run-down and need renovating or the area is unattractive for people to live in, possibly due to crime etc. It suits the nimbies to say that we are running out of land, the powerful don't want their house prices to fall by allowing poor people to live in newly-built quality accomodation.

Hmmm, be careful what you wish for on house prices. If the government keeps issuing debt, we could have an inflationary crisis with interest rates raised substantially to combat it.

That'll bring the prices down for you.

yes you are right we are in a pickle at the moment

Who's likely to be in more need of money form the government - married couples with children who have an income- or children living in other arragements?"

That doesn't make sense, at the moment, as a married couple we would have been offered more "help" if we were separated. And many people play the system in this way. Not every married couple earns 50k

My problem with the benefits system is that its a complete fuck up. The problem occurs when getting back into work. I personally know quite a few people who have had trouble with the transition. 3 have had to declare themselves bankrupt when going back to work, and a few have just given up and gone back on to benefits. It takes a really determined person (specifically single parents) to come off benefits and unless you are going into a skilled profession, it is likely that you will be worse off. Remember it isn't just the benefits you receive, but that receiving benefits gives you allowances in other areas. Such as, if you are in receipt of benefits you are allowed to pay back debts at a slower more manageable rate. When you go back to work, are faced with paying full rent, childcare, all your bills and then suddenly your repayments go up, it can easily send you under very rapidly.

I also agree with tootles, if you don't work for no other reason than because you can't be arsed, you should be entitled to nothing. And I may get a roasting for this but I would extend it to mothers who receive benefits because they want to be a sahm but their children are in school full time. They should be able to work at least part-time and then maybe given a little extra in terms of housing benefit.

Far too much money is fritted away needlessly, £250-500 child bond??? £100+ for healthy eating when pregnant???? how many pregnant mothers use that to buy some extra fruit and veg?

I agree with MrsVidic's first post on how to cut public spending, but agree with leningrad when it comes to house prices. Too many people are overstretching themselves, if you can't afford it don't buy it . If people were not paying these ridiculous house prices, they would naturally go down to more reasonable prices.