to think that the tories actually have nothing to offer families?

[lowrib]

I'm not a staunch Labour supporter by any means, and I certainly don't agree with all they've done - but if you look at what they've done for families, they've actually implemented a lot of things that make a real difference in practical terms, like

• professionalising the child minding profession
• increasing maternity leave pay from 6 months to 9
• introducing child tax credits & working tax credits
• providing more nursery school places
• putting in practical measures to make it easier for children to stay on at school post-16

And probably lots more things (anyone?)

The tories keep going on about helping families, and 'mending our broken society' but how exactly do they plan to do that?

We don't know where their promised cuts will hit, but personally I feel very uneasy. I really don't trust them to leave families alone, and think it will be absolutely disastrous to see all this unpicked. For some families these things are simply convenient, but for many children, it's what makes it possible for them to live a decent family life.

AIBU?

Artic Fox- I agree cuts need to be made in many areas but not pupil/teacher ratios in state schools.

I agree with them about ending the couples penalty in the benefits system.

The Tory party will have to reduce the limit for applying though by at least around £30k so you will stop getting the benifit at around £32k rather than £66

Agree with freezing council tax.

This will mean a hugh number of job losses and less services from your council.

funding for relastionship support - will this actually keep parents together? Or will it mean parents break up and have financal support in breaking up?

I am not an ardent labour supporter either and think they have done an awful job in the last 2-3 years, based on acts that where carried out 10 years ago.

But they have helped woman back into work when they have become single mothers - the average age when a mother becomes single is 36 - so this isn't teenagers gatting pg for money (which I still think is a myth in 9.9% of stories)

The labour goverment did bring in tax credits - the tory party tax credits only applied if you were unemployed. Tax credits were based on an Australian system - but the idea was to get people out of the catch 22 of people staying unemployed as they couldn't earn enough to pay for childcare and so working made them poor - the child care element made going out to work and a work ethos acheivable - which the tory goverment in the past 18 years had failed to ever address. The tory party just talked about getting mothers and unemployed into work but never made it a reality or did anything about helping in real terms.

If the tory party freeze council tax then the cost of living has risen by 3.5% how exactly are councils supposed to run the county? Where will they find the money to pay staff? They will cut jobs and the old will suffer as the easiest way to cut jobs os for carers not to be employed to assist old/pensioners. So the old will suffer and go without.

With more 65 year olds than 16 year olds this will save thouseands of pounds - so it will effectivly freeze old people.

Not necessarily.

Where is the money going to come from?

Why should working people be taxed more when they see the money quite frankly pissed away by rich bankers and a dependancy of choice?

Actually I don't think money "in" has been cut. Am I wrong? It was all taken back with increases in NI, which is taken off the entire gross income anyway with no allowances.

Riven it was lowered in 1989 by the tory goverment and got down from 30% to 22%.

i remember my net pay becoming more and more due to income tax reducing.

It wasn't abolished it was lowered

I'm terrified of losing the tax credit system, it would be disastrous for me and mine.
I vote with my pocket because we live very close to the breadline (tax credits keep us above the breadline). It would be nice to be able to vote for good morals, greener policies etc but I have to look out for our best interests (food and shelter)
I can't imagine ever voting tory as they have a well documented history of having very little respect for families like ours (single parent). I have the misfortune of personally knowing a local tory guy; he is vile, spiteful, manipulative and I wouldn't trust him with a goldfish

A cynic would say that is why the tax credit system was created. We make people dependent on a benefit, get the used to a lifestyle that perhaps otherwise they would not have. You then scare people by saying that if you vote tory you will lose them.

if tax credits did not exist we would have been entirely dependent on benefits when dc was younger, as i really would not have been able to work. this is not about maintaining a lifestyle, it's about feeding my family.

I acknowledge it could be about feeding a family, but maybe that family would not have been as big. I am not saying that you should not have had those children but people make decisions based on their economic situation which includes tax credits. Those very people are now unlikely to vote tory.

we are a 2 person family

completely agree that the system as a whole facilitates families to expand beyond their means. more kids = more money, more kids = bigger house

No, you tax less and you receive less money in tax, not the other way round. Bring down all tax ratees to 20%, cut back the public sector hugely and things will be better.

Both parties could certainly merge tax and NI and may be pay some universal benefit and abolish other benefits and credits and all those complexities which we pay people do sort out which is such a waste of time and resources.

While I agree that cuts may have to be made it is rather unsettling to listen to someone say cut back the public sector when they opt out of that sector for private provision.

Yes but you really don't want all the opt outers to opt-in.
Especially with schools.

did I read a comment further up about labour encouraging single mothers?

my mother (like Riven) brought up 3 children under the tory gov as a single mother - and t was shit, both as a child and as a mother.

single mothers don't necessarily end up that way on purpose.

coincidentally my sister has ended up in the same situation (got married, had kids, father/husband fecks off) and both she and the kids are better off because of the help they get. the children in this situation are innocent so why should they suffer?

by having access to a surestart centre the kids (one who is only 2.5) can get involved in actvities and attend half a day 5 days a week, get a hot meal while they're there and my sister can tak courses which help her in the long run. i think its brilliant.

and although the csa have had problems, its better than the circus my mum had to deal with in order to get 5 quid a week off my father!

and tax credits for people earning over 50k? me and dp earn just over that - we don't live an extravagant life but we still struggle and most of our money goes on mortgage, bills, etc.

I have said it before and will say it again - David Cameron will leave us to starve.

I am not commenting on whether she should have the right to opt out. I just think it is ironic that someone who has opted out of the state system because presumably it is not good enough, then decides the budgets should be cut further.

Where would you make cuts Xenia? Which state sector jobs would you see go and which would you privatise? Just curious.......

Why do these things always resort to the ridiculous, quite clearly not the Doctors although £100k for a part time job ? Firemen, again well no but how many administrators are really required in a typical firestation.
Same with the Police, qualified trained police yes of course, dickheads on a power trip getting local school kids to pick up liter we could probably live without.

Sorry been offline for a day but I'd like to respond to 'Said' and the comment re what help do I need.....
When I was off on mat leave I could have done with working some working tax credit.

And why the hell should I pay into a system for others to sit on their arses and claim it as they don't work and I have to work 50+ hour weeks!? If someone works part time then they should get extra to ensure they are not worse off but those who don't work should get very little unless they can't work due to a disability.