to think that the tories actually have nothing to offer families?

[lowrib]

I'm not a staunch Labour supporter by any means, and I certainly don't agree with all they've done - but if you look at what they've done for families, they've actually implemented a lot of things that make a real difference in practical terms, like

• professionalising the child minding profession
• increasing maternity leave pay from 6 months to 9
• introducing child tax credits & working tax credits
• providing more nursery school places
• putting in practical measures to make it easier for children to stay on at school post-16

And probably lots more things (anyone?)

The tories keep going on about helping families, and 'mending our broken society' but how exactly do they plan to do that?

We don't know where their promised cuts will hit, but personally I feel very uneasy. I really don't trust them to leave families alone, and think it will be absolutely disastrous to see all this unpicked. For some families these things are simply convenient, but for many children, it's what makes it possible for them to live a decent family life.

AIBU?

Fair point. For some people.

I think the one thing the tax credits system takes into account is the overall system.

We earn around 50k between us. We have tax credits help for nursery fees. I agree on that level we do not need any other type of support. Once our DC's are in school we would not need any type of support. Whilst our childcare bills are extortionate it makes a real difference. As we both work we cannot take the free place for 3 year olds (and are in Wales so do not get any type of voucher for that).

I would prefer to have the extra support now in these few remaining years than an increase to my overall personal allowance - we wont need that when the DC's are in school.

Anyone earning 50k or more is unlikely to have anything other than nominal tax credits unless they have high nursery fees. We would get nothing if we did not have nursery costs, nor would we get anything if our nursery costs reduced to 'only' £750 a month (one child).

I've never had them but we were was paying for full time nanny in 1983 for examaple when I was 23. Obviously that hugely paid off in my continuing to work full time for 25 years rather than becoming a part time class room assistant or something at 23 so it's worth working even at a fairly small profit for a few years if it means in 20 years you'll be doing well in a profession or whatever although no point if all you can aspire to is the dizzy heights of a supermarket till. So it's a personal choice for each person based on their own work ethic and IQ and other personality issues. How did people cope before they had tax credits? it was just a freer market. Some employers had subsidised nursery places.

Befoer I started working when I was a little girl I think there was a child tax allowance which went to the one working often the father. The child benefit came in to replace that - a universal benefit paid to all women to replace that last tax allowance. You used to have unlimited tax allowanecs for your mortgage interest payments too but we went down to a lower tax economy with just 20% and 40% rates and got rid of of some allowances which is a purer better free market system. We have now started to ruin that because of Brown and now you'll have high tax but none of teh classic allowances and probably VAT on your food - a true tax on the poor. Well done Labour.

I'll be interested to see how labour are going to pay for all these election promises. Don't see many mentions of where these cuts are going to come.

eeny, meeny miny, mow, NHS, surestart, free nursery places.........oooh , who's it gonna be??

Whoever wins on May 4th, the UK is pretty screwed anyway. We're so globally uncompetitive it's almost funny. I imagine we'll just wallow in our own mediocrity for a few more decades until everyone realises that we've ceased to have any global relevance.

Ah well, when sterling hits parity with the dollar at least we can start exporting again.

How did poeple used to pay for childcare without these vouchers/CTC then?

I believe that the cost of living was such that people used to be able to afford to look after their own children if that was what they wanted which too be honest most people did.
If you had a high flying career that you loved, usually you'd have earnt enough to pay the fees yourself.
That is certainly my aunties recollection of events during the late 80's early nineties.

Well Riven you pay your money you take your choice, my DH has a first in pure chemistry was contacted by a University offering him a role in forensic science, fascinating apparently but the salary in 1992 was £6k, he took a role with Glaxo starting on £30k.
It's a lucky few who get to do interesting, well paid work most people have to choose between them and then cut their cloth accordingly.

In a nutshell whenever Labour, new or otherwise are voted in they royally fuck up the economy, create non jobs and pay people to be poor.

Then the Tories get in, sort the economy out and incentivise life for us. They put everything on a great financial footing then some twats with short memories vote labour in and our economy is ruined.

Gordon Brown will go down in history as the worst ever chancellor and the worst ever Prime Minister.

That idiot sold our countries gold, spunked all the money on admin heavy tax credits. Pushed women out to work who would be far happier at home raising their children, killed pensions and single handedly encouraged the entire banking industry to over leverage by decreasing the capital adequacy rules.

Get the idiot out.

@Riven ref The Tories being the party of the rich. We have never been rich all the booms seemed to have passed us by (we don't use huge amounts of credit either as we try and save slowly) so life is pretty much the same. But we will be voting for Blues this time. Oh and I bet that VAT on food is a possible with Darling as they are knocking on desperation door. TBH I resent paying VAT on tampons and discovered that we pay VAT on ds1's uniform i'e her sports tops etc she is at a state comp specialist sports college there is no VAT on the smaller sizes eg for 10 year olds and lower (secondary school, so how many 10 yr olds ffs? and not many undersizers that I see). This made me very angry as I thought all kids clothes were ex Vat AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COMPULSORY UNIFORM (sorry have gone seriously off topic but I think this is damned unfair IMHO)

I think the complete opposite if I'm honest.
If the Conservatives win they will have to cut absolutely everything, no stone will be left unturned and then they will get 4 years of being the bad guys then Labour will get back in again just as the economy starts recovering.
The poor Lib Dems don't deserve to clean up the mess they were the only voice of reason for 10 years and completely ignored because people didn't want to hear that the debt would need to be repaid at some point.

I say vote Labour and watch Gordon et all squirm as he has to announce cut after cut, because "it's the right thing to do"

Didn't vote Labour last time because of their attacks on civil liberties & the Iraq war (voted Plaid)

Will vote Labour this time - like them no more than before - but Tory plans for the economy are total madness (as I think even the IMF has pointed out), look like sending us straight back to the early 80s (which I remember only too well).

Otherwise I'd probably vote Plaid again, though pretty unimpressed by some of the stuff they've been involved with (particularly the Badger cull).

always voted lib dem. then met the tory candidate for our area last week. and she is very dedicated to families. i was very impressed by her. dont know anything about national politics, but her i liked.
am thinking about voting tory this time.

'sort the economy out and incentivise life for us. They put everything on a great financial footing then some twats with short memories vote labour in and our economy is ruined. '

Haahahaaahaaahaaaa. PMSL!

Yes VAT on adult clothes but kids clothes are supposed to be zero rated I have been in contact with my LABOUR MP Riven and they are not interested I have heard zilch back from her on this one. They are probably all the same in the end but we were broke as a nation under Healey and are worse under Darling we cant exist like this. This Govt set a grand example to us all with their crazy run with credit so most people followed suit remember all the tv ad "phone now get an instant unsecured loan blardy blardy blah," we need a change of Govt we are stuck in Groundhog Day with Brown

please can some one tell me which political party is offering to improve education across the country? I'm happy for schools in less affluent areas to be improved but don't want it to be at the expense of successful state schools in other areas. Even successful comps are still performing less well than many private schools so there is no room for complacency in any state secondary school.

Eg. Tories say they want to bring in non selective grammar type education in places with failing secondary schools. What are they going to do with the successful comprehensives? Cut their funding to fund the rest? The impression I have of labour and the lib dems is that they will give more money to schools in inner cities. Therefore it appears if you live in a middle class area you are expected to be wealthy enough to pay for private education and most people aren't.

I am imagining some of the worst schools will have loads of money thrown at them and improve slightly but many of the better schools will go downhill through lack of funding and larger class sizes.

@Riven agree they ARE

I'm not convinced by what labour have done TBH. My personal view is that its time to give someone else a chance.

-re: the longer maternity leave, might suit some but the pay after 6 weeks isn't very much.... they didn't increase the 6 weeks of almost full pay

-they promised wrap around care in schools - but it hasn't universally happened (not at my kids school anyway)

-there is a couple penalty in the benefit system which really upsets me as its the wrong message to send out

-single mothers who want to work have an effective tax rate of over 90% because of lost benefits - hardly encouraging to work and get out of poverty?

• they indroduced the £55 a week childcare - which was a nice idea but not really enough to cover childcare costs even with one child - now threatening to remove it

• they have thrown so much money at the NHS and it doesn't seem to be that much better

• they have let house prices get totally out of control so many families even with decent jobs can't afford an average house to bring their kids up in

expatinscotland I would love to know what you're pmsl at?

Can you name a Labour administration that hasn't ruined the economy?

Snowlady- how can you have a non-selective grammar school? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

Re concerns about government spending, why do people find it so hard to understand that these cuts have to be made, and will be made by whichever party gets in? In fact, you should be more worried about a party that doesn't cut spending.

Labour spent more than it got in tax revenues during a massive economic boom (great sustainable policy!!). Now it's staring at a decade of economic stagnation so probably best to start paying off that sovereign debt, dontcha think?

ArticFox - non-selective grammar schools are not my idea..it is one of the tory policies I have heard mentioned this week. I think they were wanting to set these schools up in places such as Bristol.

Maybe some one on here in the know on Tory education policy can explain how they will work. I assume a more traditional education but don't know any more.