To wonder why there are always more disabled spaces than mother&baby spaces in car parks?

[Feierabend]

In places like Waitrose, John Lewis, etc. Surely there are more mothers with little children out there than disabled people?

Yes people might have to wait a bit if spaces were wider, but sometimes they are too narrow esp if people either side have parked a bit close. Think it would be nice if people could open their car doors and have room to get in/out and not be in danger of scratching the car next to them

I agree with the OP.

My local Waitrose car park has far fewer P&C spaces than disabled. This is a complete pain as whatever time I go the former are always filled and the latter have lots of spaces (the disabled spaces were increased).

I have a toddler who has just turned two. I have to carry him into his RF group 1 seat and I need the door to be considerably open for this. A car parked next to me in a normal space makes this very difficult and stressful (also precious about my car!).

I usually try to find a space in the car park where no one can park to my left. Failing that I park in the staff area, which always has empty spaces.

I don't mind parking a distance from the shop and walking, it is the stress of not being able to open the door sufficiently I hate.

Clearly if spaces are not wide enough to let people out there is a general problem (like in some multi stories I have been in) and I agree they need to be a bit wider. I have never found this to be the case in supermarket car parks.

But if we are talking about widening all spaces so they are all like disabled/ P&T spaces then I do not think this would be beneficial.

lol lisa

arabica, surely your 2 year old can climb into his own seat? can't you just open the other back door (on the other side) then get in the back seat and do his seat up like that? you don't need to open the door wide and do the seat up from the road, you can get in the back seat and do it up yourself iyswim

This still ignores the fact that P&T spaces are a courtesy, a marketing gimmick instigated by supermarkets to encourage their favourite customers. Out mothers used to manage without them and so would we if they were removed. They are not enforceable and there don't have to be a certain number.

Disabled spaces are a legal requirement, the amount is determined by percentages, and their provision is essential and far more important than P&T.

yes I see loads of people trapped in cars, everyday in the carpark. They bang on the windows to be let out as they are trapped by small spaces

I manage to get 3 toddlers strapped into the back of my ( 3 door) car and a baby in the front without needing acres of extra room. It can be done in a normal sized space.

All supermarkets have limited space for parking so if you increase the number of m&b
spaces then logic dictates that the ordinary mumber of spaces will have to be reduced and they aint going to do that,number of people able to park =amount of money in till.
At our local supermarket the gaps between the m&b spaces are used as trolley parks as none of the users of these spaces take their trolleys back to the trolley bays.

gives gold medals to all those who have bravely endured squeezing 25 kids through a sunroof in a 'normal' space

Sorry scrap that I think a George cross is needed.

St John the baptist would be proud.

I have 3 supermarkets near me and they all have a lot of empty disabled spaces (whenever I go shopping). However, I don't think this means they should be reduced or used by P+T. Imo my local sainsbury could increase the allocation of P+T spaces because despite building the store in the 90's the car spaces are astonishingly narrow and it is a job to open the door wide enough to get in and out let alone get a baby or toddler out. The local waitrose has generous proportioned spaces and imo P+T spaces are not necessary.

John had little to do with children. Why not emulate Christopher, who picked up the kid and carried him?

It's not about "enduring" squeezing kids in acar. It's about being sensible. There are only so many P&T spaces that can be fitted into a car park without loosing too many spaces for other people and whilst they are very useful (and I use one if it is available) it is not essential to have one and anyone who says different needs to rethink how they manage DCs in car parks

Yeh yeh I know- been there done that got it on DVD....its just these threads always turn into a competition of who has had it worse.
'I always managed with twins in a normal space'
'Well thats nothing, I had twins and two babies'
'Yes yes well I had 3 heads and managed to carry a rhino across the car park safely'....

I think that the reason people get cross is the constant comparison to the disabled bays. They are not comparable. At all.

In the same way that whenever a thread like this arises posters mention those that fraudulently use a blue badge, as though you are guilty untill proved innocent. We wouldn't assume fraud in other areas of life quite so quickly as we seem to for disabilities.

I do have a disabled son, aged 6, but not a blue badge and at this stage we don't need one, but I really feel for the posters who have to constantly fight these kind of battles.

I have no real feelings on P&T spaces, they were great when the boys were tiny, and if I find one when DC3 comes along next month then so be it, but if not I guess I will use my two good legs and walk.

Riven

Am dr's letter with a disability such as autism does not qualify here, it really does have to be a purely physical need

I've been looking on the Assembly guideline though and whilst teh review seems vague it does look as if that is much of what they are trying to address

Good- they're talking about bringing in pink spaces for PG women: have no issue with that as such (as I have none with P&T), but do mreserve the right to glare bitterly on occasion as we get left out again LOL

(Oh and yes we obv have a people carrier, though not of the van shape- ours is more like a butch estate. And DS1 doesn't need a badge, it's ds3, or the pair when together, IYSWIM)

DS1 used to need one on his own, luckily not so much as long as an adult has beady eyes well fixed and shouting voice tuned

No foxinsocks he can't climb into his seat.

If he entered from the other side and slid along, not only would he have to turn himself around(it's a rear-facing seat), he would have to navigate the high sides. Not possible for a just turned two year old.

The seat is on the left side of the car, so opening the left door and standing on that side is the only way to do it (the Essex Car Safety Centre did demonstrate the seat to me). Hence the need for more room to the left of the car, as is to be found in the P&C spaces.

I suppose the size of the car is a factor. Some cars are smaller, have smaller doors and make parking in small spaces easier. My everyday car is not one of these.

Anyone who says 'babies are effectively disabled' clearly has no idea or experience of a disabled baby - they are very different creatures indeed. A baby with very low muscle tone often can't sit up, or be propped up, or support itself in any way at all. 'Normal' babies are only like this for a very short time, when it's quite easy to carry them around. (God's sake, this seems so bleedin' obvious I can't quite believe I'm having to say it.)

Am 100% with everyone who has made the very good point that disability is not a lifestyle that anyone chooses. You want my blue badge, fine - you take my DD2 as well for a day or two, and come back and tell me how she differs a little bit from your average baby.

I really think it's madness that you are lifting a 2 year old out of the car in their car seat. The problem isnt the size of the car spaces, it's the way you are choosign to get your child in and out of the car.

no one is saying that parents HAVE to have p&t spaces or are unable to shop,just that they are nice and would be available more often if people don't park in them if they don't need to because they have other spaces allocated to meet their needs

You choose to have a helpless newborn

You don't really choose to have an autistic 6 eyar old who runs quickly has noo sense of danger and doesn't respond well to verbal commands

Or an autistic spectrum ten year old with a historty of suddenly pushing people so they may go under a vehicle due to a lack of understanding of cause and effect

Or a heavy child in a large wheelchair (people may choose huge prams but they can buy a Maclaren if tehy wish)

Or a hoist

or.....

Rainbow am not sure- I wouldn't expect to lift a child who was say 2.11, but ds4 is 2 next month and far off being able to get in his seat himself. 2 is a very wide range IME between enar baby and almost pre-schooler

saslou - can you not see that if a person with a disability chooses to park in a parent and child space there may well be a good reason for that even if there are empty disabled places. I am agog that anyone could suggest that a parent with a child is more entitled to that space than the person with a disability.

I just amazed that an adult cannot get a 2 year old in and out of a car without needing a huge parking space.