To wonder why there are always more disabled spaces than mother&baby spaces in car parks?

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In places like Waitrose, John Lewis, etc. Surely there are more mothers with little children out there than disabled people?

Hi Riven
I had the opposite problem to you, an AS boy who was a runner and had no concept of stranger danger or traffic. That was exciting at so many different levels!
To keep him alive, he had reins whilst I trained him. And an NT daughter at the same time. I used a backpack for shopping because I needed both hands.
He now walks very fast, used the road safety code (he is the teen waiting for the green man, or until there is a clear space) and keeps the rules.
Still no concept of stranger danger, but he looks too scary for most to take on now!

My DD has 4. Has a 7 seater with sliding doors.

Always parks at first available space even if it is miles away from entrance.

Takes the pram out first. Straps in baby. Then the toddler,straps her into the toddler seat.

Then the 4 and 6 year old get out of the van and to this day still put their hands on the car until doors are locked etc.

They were taught this at an early age.

Then they stay glued to the pram while they traverse the car park.

Actually I admire all mums when I see them out shopping with 3 and 4 children.

I only had 2 and they were 3 years apart. The 3 year old was at pre-school when the youngest was born and I rarely shopped with them both together.

Also there was much less traffic and people around when mine were small.

A friend of mine quite often comments that mums today seem to be harrassed and not quite in control most of the time.

I then remind her that she had two and left them with her mother when she went shopping.

Riven I think that when God made people like you he gave you the extra strength and courage for a reason.

He knew what was coming your way and added a good dose of humour in for good measure.

Maybe I shouldn't say that because for all I know you may be an athiest.

I almost deleted this post but I didn't because I feel that you won't berate me if it isn't appropriate.

Shit is this thread back again?

OP count ypurself lucky: we have 2 disabled children and don't get a badge due to obtuse rulings, i'd dearly love to be able to use them yet as long as I have an extra adult I still cope without

When I ont I stay st home

Rather than reduce no of spaces, spped up the review underway here in wales to the rules that mean people with non physical disabilitoes can't get a badge unleews they get hr mobility (autism causes severe likelihood of a no for both cases)

Then the spaces will be full

And peoples lives will be changed

At our local shopping centre, as well as having M @ B spots and disabled spots they also have SENIORS spots.

'You don't need to register as disabled to get a blue badge, and some of the people who are registered as disabled don't apply for blue badges as their disability does not have an impact on the distance they can walk.'

very much depends on where you are: in wales unless you have a physical need you can't apply to the council.

As I said that is ebing reviewed but I cannot get a date for it.

When I only have the NT ones (I have 4) or one of the ASD boys I am fine, but I can't seem to grab both ASD children and the buggy. So I actually think there should be some leverage for people who have more than 1 disabled children (both on LR mobility) as well but hey ho that will never happen.

But then I think the system is all messed up: I cannot see how someone can require HR or MR care and not need some form of parking support. The issue from what I am told is the provision of motability which I agree is not soemthing we need, maybe that should be assessed separately?

In Germany they have special womens' spaces in underground car parks and at motorway service stations to make women feel safer and reduce the risk of being raped when you're out on your own in the dark. I wonder what some of you on here would say to that. Personally I think it's a brilliant idea.

Of course there is always online shopping...

As I said before, P&T spaces are useful but not essential.

To the people who say they need them as they have children who run off. I have taught my 2 and 3 year old that they do not run in car parks and near roads and if they do they go on reins. I can not understand why parents with non special needs chidren can not do the same.

As for getting a baby and young toddler out of the car in a normal space. I have a newborn and a 14 month old also. I park the car (leave the children in the car whilst I get a trolley with 2 seats), take trolley back to the car. Put 14 month old in upright seat and newborn in grey reclining seat. You do not HAVE to take the whole car seat out. If I am in town I take an umbrella fold double buggy. I then get 2 and 3 year old out and they hold onto either side of the trolley/buggy.

It is a bit of a preformance but it can be done and if you do things in the right order and teach your children road safety it can be done safely.

I think it's important to teach your child that a carpark can be dangerous and that they need to be aware at all times. I don't think they will learn this if the car is parked at the front all the time.

I understand about space though and how it can prove difficult to get a baby seat out the car door with a tiny gap. This is why when i take dd (3) swimming, i park anywhere that is available and leave the P&C spaces for those with small babies who need more room.

I think it's more important to teach my dd to hold my hand and how to walk safely across the carpark.

When i have my ds (1) with me, i try to park near a trolly park so i can park, get out the car, grab a trolly, then get ds out and put him in the trolly and walk across the carpark with ds already in the trolly.

If i have dd with me as well as ds, i either put them both in trolly and then walk across the carpark, or i hold ds and hold dds hand. Either way i don't ever have a problem. My dd is learning that she doesn't just run across the carpark.

I think those P&C spaces should actually be just for parents with small babies in carseats that you take out and carry. Why anyone needs "loads of space" to get their small dc out of the car over the age of about 18 months is beyond me?

People seem to think that in wanting P&C spaces, parents of non disabled children want to deprive the disabled of their bays. This is not the case. While I do appreciate that in many cases your need is greater than ours, what is the problem with having both. Yes it is possible to get 4 children out of a car emplying the above strategies, but it is difficult and I don't think people should be resentful of parents wanting to make it a little easier.
Yes, we used to manage without them, but we also used to manage without lots of things and it doesn,t mean that things were better.
I think the solution, as someone suggested earlier, is to make all bays wider, still have disabled bays close to the shop, p&c space near paths and we would all be catered for. This would also mean that those disabled people who have had to go home because they couldn't park would have more options. We also need to address fraud and people giving their badges to family to use. This really isn't about one or the other

saslou - having places for disabilities is a need, having places for parent and children is a marketing tool to get you to shop there. It isn't a need and it isnt that difficult to manage with children and parking if there are no disabilities. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

Saslou, yours is the voice of reason. Thank you. I don't understand the parents of disabled children calling for P&C spaces to be abolished. That would be pissing on your own chips surely.

Sigh.

I give up.

'Thank you. I don't understand the parents of disabled children calling for P&C spaces to be abolished. That would be pissing on your own chips surely.'

That might have been me. I have a DS with AS, no blue badge and don't use either of the two categories of parking mentioned here.
I am also, however, that other mumsnet hate figure. Not a bottlefeeder, but a primary teacher.
So it would make my life easier if parents taught their children some road safety, to listen and respond in potentially hazardous situations, and to have better levels of fitness, so that a short walk wasn't seen as cruel and unusual punishment. P & C spaces round here are regularly used by parents with school age children up to 12.

Goblin, I totally agree with you that parents with children over say 2 years old don't NEED special spaces. I can't believe it when I see mums with school age children park in those M&B bays, and then they skip across to the entrance. It's mums with babies and toddlers we're talking about here. But I keep repeating myself so I'll shut up now.

I don't care if P&C are marketing tools to make me shop. I like and value them.Having a more pleasant shopping experience takes nothing away from anyone else. I'm not saying I need it in the same way as a disabled person needs their bay so I am not really comparing the two. I just don't see why we can't have both and use them as they were intended. As I've said before, by all means use p&c if disabled bays are full or if you have children with you

I hate those car seats. Did you know that you can actually take babies out of them? And that babies are actually MORE portable when they are not encased it a stone of plastic and polystyrene?

FWIW, I always find the most expensive looking car to park beside, using the spurious logic that the robbers will rob that one. And we got a car with sliding doors, much easier.

I have a huge people carrier and a LO, and a disabled child. I never park in disabled spaces, as we dont have a blue badge, because we dont need one. However, I can still manage to park in a normal space, get the buggy out the back, put baby in it and then go round and let DD1 out. Its not difficult, and this has been done in mnay carparks. Yes its nicer to be closer to the shops, but i have legs, I use them, but then i also have a brain i use too

I don't want more P&T spaces as it would just mean that more people who really don't need them (older kids, lazy, big cars etc) would park in them and there would be fewer overall spaces.

I don't mind not getting a P&T space but I wouldn't be very happy if I got all 4 DCs in car, drove to supermarket and then had to wait for any space because they had all been made wider to accomodate a minority of parents.

Trust me, you do have that extra strength.
Otherwise you would have gone down in a screaming heap years ago.

"Wonderwoman". See what I mean about the sense of humour.