schools constantly asking parents for money

[saslou]

AIBU to resent being constantly asked for money by my childrens school. This week we have World book day, so I am just off out to get costumes as I am not very good at making things. They also have the book fair this week and an author coming into school who will also be giving children the "opportunity" to purchase her books while she is there. I am very happy to buy books but don't think that school is the right place to sell children things.
In addition my childrens school wants parents to pay the insurance and travel costs of compulsory school activities (they don't even ask nicely, just tell you that these are the costs). Recently I got billed for a lost library book that my child hadn't even brought home.
I feel mean because I know they have financial pressures but also feel I am being treated like their own personal cashpiont. It doesn't occur to them that not all parents have lomitless amounts of money.
Anyway, sorry for long rant...

No, it's just that if people don't contribute to swimming then money intended for something else will have to be spent on it. Swimming is a discrete activity that it's easy to ask parents to contribute to. But if parents can't or won't contribute, schools have a statutory duty to provide it anyway.

You could be right mazzystartled and the money is being spent on other things.

If it is I can't see any evidence of where though....I wish I could as trips and other events going up by 3x's as much in such a short time is a bit of a shock to the bank balance.

Our swimming was free up until last year - as the swimming pool is within walking distance...then all of a sudden it £40...now they don't do any swimming within school.

I just presumed budgets etc had been cut and we were having to cover costs....maybe not though?

Saslou, the problem is that schools have to pay those costs out of their budget,and they do not get extra money from the LEA just because the costs of transporting their pupils to the swimming pool are more than for a school that is within walking distance. so if the school pays it, and these costs are high, the money will come out of another area of the budget. Where would you rather it came from? teaching staff? support staff? books?

Maybe you could offer to transport your child to and from the swimming pool yourself and save the money that way!

And, according to our LEA, whilst the school may not charge for the swimming lessons, because they are a part of the curriculum, they are entitled to charge for the associated costs of travel etc.

Yes it can seem like schools do ask for a lot of financial contributions for this and that - I have 3xDD and at times it was hard to say no. Secondary was definitely more demanding - non uniform days they all 'had' to pay and it was even collected in advance, didn't dare think whether to ask for it back if DD was off sick on the day. More choice was given to trips which were optional and not the 'whole class' has to go. Have explained to each DD when they brought an expensive trip letter home (residential £++++) that for the same amount of money we could go away as a whole family. Fortunately they have all agreed!

Seeing this from the other side of the fence - I am a primary teacher with a class of 29. When I want to do fun stuff like cooking/planting seeds etc I link it to our topic but more often than not pay for the ingredients etc myself as I know how tight our school budget is. I have considered asking for each child to contribute pennies towards the cost but also conscious of parents rising outgoings.

We are asked by our head to be sensible about trip costs and try to stagger them throughout the year so that families do not get asked to payout for the whole family at the same time.

Planning a school trip is not taken lightly, but they are so expensive especially coach costs especially since they now have to have seatbelts etc. At the end of the day it all contributes to your child's safety and enjoyment of school. The one time I decided not to plan a trip out of school, parents were asking why we weren't having a class trip!

As parents there are lots of valid arguments on this thread and I agree with many but personally I wanted my children to enjoy school and participate in activities as much as I could afford. It's great when we get the photos out of them in costume for book days and they will find a trip momento and recall what they did (DDs are now 21,19, 16).

Me and DH are always discussing this. We (and many other parents we've chatted to about it) reckon it'd be so much easier to ask for a £10 donation from each family at the start of the school year. What a load of hassle in asking for money here, there and everywhere. So in our school, if every family did this, they'd raise a whopping 2.5 grand.
We've just been asked (I paid so didn't look mean)to pay £6 for a literary festival visit or something. Basically, it's part of the curriculum and therefore I don't think we shold have been asked to pay but DH said just to pay it.He thinks that if the schools can't survive on what they receive from the Govt. then they shouldn't have extra from asking parents all the time. Our school doesn't have a drinking fountain in the playground but they have some willow deer and the reception play area can't be used all winter when it's wet as there's only grass/mud but instead of raising funds for hard surface, they plant a willow tunnel and pay loads of plant tubs. Yes, it looks nice but schools have to work out their priorities. We can quite easily afford what they ask for but it's the point that we don't like being constantly asked. Couldn't quite believe how they're asking parents to pay £2 pp for the school disco this weekend, it's obligatory for parents to stay.

obviously this wouldn't reduce the amount of money that you're asked for - but what they have this school year started doing at the junior school is they sent out a letter at the start of the school year to each year group with a list of the main planned trips/visits during the school year, and their cost for the previous year group - just to give parents an idea of what "big" things were coming up, and roughly when and how much.

It was something I was actively involved in asking for last school year as I was finding it increasingly difficult to try and second guess when requests for trips would be coming in.

we are also a low-income family in an otherwise affluent area - first dd is at secondary and is already having to miss a school trip to paris - cost £400 - its not classed as being educational but cultural so there is no help available for the cost - my younger one is starting grammar school this year - the trips there cost about £1000 each - geography trip to mexico or netball team to australia - there is no chance of her ever going on anything like that - i know they will not be the only ones not going but the children who have to stay behind just get lumped together with a cover teacher - they must feel they are being punished for not being able to go - why cant the school organise a related day trip for those who cannot afford a week away

Yep, agree with this. I'm going to see a one hour project demonstration that DD has been involved in tomorrow. £2.50 entrance fee for me, £1.50 for DS and bring extra money for things that the children have made - everything is £2 and £3 a pop. It's easily going to be a tenner - unless I decide not to buy the things she's worked hard making

It is just getting silly - £1 here, £2 there, buy a book, go to PSA fundraisers, a trip/ski-ing lessons/swimming lessons that are not compulsory but if I don't pay they will go into a younger class and do lessons whilst their classmates go - yeah, right! We didn't have half of what they do when we were young, and we all managed to survive and enjoy our school experience.

saslou twasn't me who said that - I was quoting from seeker earlier in the thread.

I was facetiously wondering whether all these "fun" activities mean less time is spent on what actually matters at school.

I really struggle with this too.... seems never ending here, and I don't have that much money, so have to scrimp on other treats for them to continue to do this

Trips are more expensive for schools to run than they were a few years ago.
Coach travel is more expensive (petrol, insurance etc and all drivers CRBed). Also, the teachers that go on the trip (secondary) have to be covered by supply teachers, rather than colleagues, because of workforce reform. Trips are ludicrously expensive. School budgets have not increased proportionately. The money must come from somewhere.

I know it is embarrassing to write to school and say you need financial help, but it's probably much more common than you expect. In my year group of 160, only 3 are on free school meals (affluent area) but about 10 or 12 are on a list to not pay for "extras" like trips, and the school will buy them a calculator and things like that when they're needed.

I know it's not ideal, but the only other solution is to not do the trips and enrichment days. There would be complaints about that too.

I do agree that schools should give sufficient notice though (sometimes permission for these trips is delayed by County with risk assessments and stuff, so things can be more last-minnute than anticipated). Charity events and school based activities should be advertised well in advance.

I do think that sometimes schools see higher income middle class families as the norm, and tend to forget that they have (perhaps less vocal!) low income families. Sometimes it can be very embarrassing for people to be asked to pay "just five pounds" here and there

The school trip (yr 3) that DD isn't going on due to security reasons, not cost, isn't as part of the curriculum but to be honest, I'd rather pay for an activity trip, like abseiling/climbing/ariel ropes etc than for what they're for. It's so they can compare the town where we live with a village in the Peak District and they'll be drawing and walking. Why on earth couldn't drawing be done locally on a day trip and walking be done locally. I questioned teacher and she said the important thing was staying the night! I said DD did sleep overs but apparently, that's no the same. Oh right - that's why you £180 then is it?

I'm early 30's and I went to the peak district for a week when I was 10yrs old - and we were by no means the first year group to go on the trip, they'd been doing it for years. And we went on an expensive trip to London Zoo once (I remember it was expensive as my parents had an argument about the cost of it) - I would have been about 8 then.

Luciemule - totally agree with you. Its not about not wanting DCs to have fun and have new and exciting experiences. Its about wondering why the school can't think of more local things to do, that will be lower cost but just as enriching.

I just had a reminder from my dc's school that they didn't appear to have received my £'s contribution towards swimming lessons for the term and would i please make the payment by fri 7th march. While they use the word "contribution" they omit the word "voluntary" from their letters. I don't think some of the parents will realise they don't actually have to pay the letter reads like it's expected. I wonder if this letter is even legal! I cannot afford to pay. I just binned the letter.

The other thing that grates is that DS and DD went to different primary schools, within about 2 miles of each other. DS's school was very small, and served a very affluent area, whereas DD's is a more socially diverse school. DS's school rested very much on it's laurels, and seemed to take full advantage of the demographics. DD's school recognises it's social responsibility and is more realistic in it's requests for money.

DS's year went on a Mon-Fri outdoor residental costing £300, plus the cost of kitting him out - and then wanted £85 for ski-ing lessons, even though they'd had them the year before as well. We couldn't afford £400 plus, so he couldn't go ski-ing which was horrible for him. It was him, and one other girl who'd hated ski-ing anyway, and they had to sit in with another class for 8 weeks. It was humiliating for him (and us) - b*llocks to anyone who thinks that a 10 year old benefits from that kind of life lesson.

Sorry BalloonSlayer- was reading quickly while trying to do something else and misunderstood.

I wasn't objecting to the school trips, so much as the way schools constantly expect parents to supplement activities and don't even ask nicely, they just send home notes detailing what they have decided to do and then say btw you, the parent; is expected to pay for it. wrt compulsory off site activities, I do believe that if the school insist on doing them, then they ought to budget for it.To me, this is part of the Senior Management Teams job and they are paid accordingly. Seems like an easier option to ask parents constantly rather than badger the LEA for more money.
I think a lot of my objection comes from the often abrupt way schools communicate with parents and the fact that "requests" for money are constant. Not having a go at teachers. I know that a lot of them are doing their best in difficult circumstances

It starts earlier and earlier - really fucked off with DD's preschool. They are trying to raise some money to buy an outdoor canopy for the children to play under in the summer, but lack the imagination to raise funds in any other way apart from tapping up the parents, and are resorting to more and more underhand tactics to do it. Two recent examples:

1. I pick up DD just after lunch, to find her troughing her way through a tube of Smarties, which she says preschool have given her (just before naptime ) I later find a letter in her bag which says we are supposed to fill the empty tube with 20p pieces.

2. DD comes home with a letter in her book bag about an Easter Egg Hunt taking place during normal preschool time. attatched to the letter is a sponsorship form which says in bold, 'your child will NOT be allowed to take part in the Easter Egg Hunt unless this form is returned'. So what are they going to do? Let all the other kids apart from my 3 year old do the Easter Egg Hunt just because I refuse to be blackmailed into coughing up cash yet again?

Totally out of order.

Our local coach companies won't quote for trips more than about a month before, so we can't tell parents the exact cost very much in advance, we can only give a rough idea.

We nearly always have five or six Year 6 children who don't go on the residential trip to Lakeside in Cumbria but we always organise a week of activities for them which we try to keep free or as low cost as possible - for example, they usually visit the local football stadium and we get volunteer parents & support staff to drive them.

That's great, Rusty - I wish more schools provided this alternative (and had the volunteers and support staff to enable it)

i must admit i am a little miffed with my dd's primary.

They are having this world book day, which is fair enough, and a sponsored read. (15 mins for reception) which is fine. It is to raise money for a mini bus as hire of taxis and coaches are too expensive.

No problem I think.

However, the thing that grates me more than anything else is the line that says:

"Children will be judged by their school mates and their favourites will go into a grand final involving the whole school"

Ok in itself, but it just feels a little too pressured for parents to dress their kids up.

Also "children who do not wish to dress up can come in mufti for a 'fine' of 50p"

50p isnt here or there, I just object to the wording of "fine"

Was "fine" in inverted commas? If so then I do think you might be suffering from a little touch of sense of humour failure.......

My youngest DS came home with a letter on Monday saying about book day thurs. They have to pay £1.00 so that the school can buy more books .

I would have thought that the schools would get funds from the LEA for books though.

I can see both sides.

I don't want school trips to be cut back though, so I do always pay up as I think my kids love them.
The school aren't making any money out of the trips either and at the end of the day if you don't want your child to go then tell the school.
I don't really agree with the school paying for those children whose parents "choose" not to pay. Use your family allowance/tax credit/income support. I am not loaded but put my kids wellbeing before anything, so if it means that I go without for the sake of my kids then so be it.
It is expensive to have children full stop. Don't really like non-uniform day as there is always "a good cause, always" and it is a constant worry about finding clothes that fit the criteria. For example we have had in the past school year:
wear something spotted
Wear red/white and blue
Dress as a pirate
dress as an animal.

Quite like the pta fundays though.