aibu in thinking that the couples on the news

[TheUsefulSuspect]

shouldn't have had a first child, let alone a second if they think there 1 Bedroom flat is insufficient.

Why do they think they deserve to be rehoused?

I would love to have a third child but we can't afford it. By some of the people on here I should have one now as am getting on. NO - as someone who works with these people who keep having children and want the council to rehouse/pay for/parent etc I am sick to the back teeth of paying for them. Also it is the children who ultimately suffer as they grow up - best case scenario - thinking the world should pay for them or in many cases hating the worls/themselves and their parents!

I don't mind helping people who make mistakes or through no fault of their own have their circumstances change. My parents were "poor" but knew that they could only afford 2 so even though they wanted more stuck to it. We lived in a 2 bedroom council house after being in flats etc.

Why should people who work hard, wait until they can give their children a decent start be penalised by paying for others who "want their children now as a right"!

We cannot legislate for the few thats just ill thought out imo..the majority of people work..pay tax ..take care of their children etc..
how can a small group of people have a major influence on the law and state is that fair?
Most people who are socially funded do need the help...but of course its the worst and extreme that make the papers... there will always be people who take advantage of the system...why should others pay the price for them?

I've actually got a friend in this position. she has a 1 bed flat and is desperately wanting a baby with her partner. she asked me one day a few weeks ago would she be selfish and irresponsible to try for a baby just now and I said no way! It can take ages or it can be instant, but go with what you want to do. Her biological clock is ticking away just now at 29...

There's never a 'right time'. Who are we to judge others who want more DC.

Get a life op (and the couple shouldn't moan either)

In India whole extended families share a room-often with the livestock. And having kids isn't the right of only middle class and upper class people.

I also think that as women have a limited window of opportunity to have kids we should make hay when the sun shines instead of waiting for the three bedroomed house with Cath kidston bedspreads. No wonder so many women leave it really late to have kids as they are waiting for the ''perfect'' circumstances.

oops, meant to add my friend isn't unemployed, she works full time in a great job, her partner also works so it's not really identical to OP scenario. still, not having the space is the same thing for both situations.

poshsinglemum I totally agree with you there. I had to say to my friend, almost scream from the rooftops 'you are in a committed relationship, go for it, you love each other, can provide a stable environment - go at it like rabbits'. Why should people wait on the 'right time', it never comes round! We had DS by letting nature take it's course, not really thinking of starting a family as such, although we had plans to a few years down the line, yet it happened as it did and I've no regrets. It happened for a reason, and I truly believe that. Alot of friends I know just keep holding off because they just don't know when's the right time...

The thread is not about the right time to have babies though. Or about having them in perfect circumstances - I'm pretty sure THAT doesn't exist. It's about whether taxpayers should provide the resources ie space/money for you to have more children, when you cannot provide these resources yourself.

um, but in the future i may be better off, but not able to have more babies?

so the current state of affairs is a consideration, it definitely isn't the only one....

I was the same lovechoc..I also let nature take its course and nature took 18mths for the first ..I was in a committed relationship decent jobs..1 bed flat..what the hell do you think they make larger homes for?..no regrets at all..very good timing ..

Eggy, that's the thing though!

I have one child, because I can afford one child. Why should you have more at my expense? (hypothetical argument as I am not currently a UK taxpayer)

Social housing is there for people who need homes who cant afford to buy...it does not mean you dont have a job??!..you pay rent and council tax like everyone else...com what is the issue here??? not everyone in social housing is on benefits!

ha, same for us mumcentreplus! it took us around 18 months to conceive the first DC, and we weren't actually 'trying', so to everyone around us it appeared that DS was an 'accident' little did they know that it didn't just take the 'once'! lol I think were both just happy to let fate take it's course of action and happy to accept whatever came our way. Odd way to do it compared to most, but hey, it works for us...

portofino the thread sort of is about the right time though. it's about whether there's a right time to have any more DC when you aren't in 'ideal' circumstances (that may be small house, lack of money etc). it all boils down to the same thing. It keeps many people's backs up,yet there are worse things in life to complain about IMO.

I had 1 child and then i thought I was covered ..but I got pregnant again with DD2 a surpise baby..what was I suppose to do get rid to be socially responsible?...like heck..you must have lost your mind!..

I think if you are responsible citizens, love your children, why should you be penalised just because you happen to be poor??

hear hear mumcentreplus!

I'm not anti-abortion, would say I'm pro-choice so if someone wants to keep their baby they should be supported to do so.

There's a huge difference, I think, between people who have a few children and are struggling and people who have child after child with no way to support them at all.

Money is certainly not the most important thing about raising a child. Some of the best parents I've known (and having been a preschool teacher/nanny/daycare provider/school aide, I've known some) have been poor single mothers and fathers.

Right now we don't have a lot of money, and DH and I argue constantly about another DC. (We've only got one.) He says we can't afford it, but at the same time we own a house and both have jobs. (We do not get benefits.) I would really like to have another soon, as DS is almost 3 and I do not want an only. (Get away, flamers, it's fine for you, I just don't want it. ) But if I were on the street or had no idea how I would provide for another, then I wouldn't have one. I know some parents who keep having babies that they can't afford and don't want to care for once they've grown past the "cute baby stage". The babies are like little dolls they can dress up, but once they hit that tough toddler stage and the novelty wears off, the cildren are neglected and ignored.

the way i see it, its a twenty year commitment, and to start off believing i'll be solvent for all of it seems unlikely - that's why the govt provides a safety net.

on the other hand, i know i'm fertile now - so its a good time to start.

notes mothers with grown up kids will be tittering to themselves at the notion that i only view it a twenty-year long financial committment

FS, stragglers, try reading the thread before commenting.

"on the other hand, i know i'm fertile now - so its a good time to start. "

IMO this is the best view to have.

Aww man...runnyb once it gets past 4 pages I'm like'Fuck this' and comment anyway

I agree with Portofino, who put it well.

Mumcentreplus I was only referring to my experience and was not trivialising abortion having the mole removed was a big deal as it was suspected melanoma and FYI hurt likr f---g hel as it was on my shin where the skin was v. thin. So physically speaking it was way more painful than a termination at 9 weeks also I was scared witless as they delayed the biopsy results so I also had more post op mental stress than with the abortion. I am a catholic and I had a big gulf to cross having the abortion and people can be hateful about this and also a lot of lies are told to women and young girls on the issue. It is a last resort but it is a safe viable option and a woman's choice. I am no hard lined feminista but I beleive passionately about this. There is no proper open discussion because we are scared to go public The medics who carry out the terminations get death threats frequently and I am full of admiration as they dont all do so for money. Also to be clear on condoms they are not the best contraceptive especially used on their own but with another device I guess they are much safer and yes they are vital in the fight against aids and stds My point which I should have made clearer is that young people should be advised to use them alongside another device for this very reason as it helps avoid more effectively against uwanted pregnancies. They are also not free to all and I know youngsters can get them free but they are hellishly expensive to buy so I think my point was very valid. People can make the most hateful and evil comments to those who have had an abortion and men can be the worst. I am not talking "bitch" comments her I am talking real death and damnation stuff normally reserved for murderers, and yes I have sadly been called a child murderer.

Have not read the whole thread but what a stupid statement from the OP - does the OP think most of the baby population on this planet have their own nursery? If someone has a baby and then say mum and dad lose their job and their big house then what? yawn...

What is the definition of being able to 'afford' to have a child?

To some people it would mean having enough money to pay for private school and continue to have two holidays a year.

To others it means being able to feed and clothe a child and to keep the house warm.

I have no problem with my children sharing a bedroom until they leave home but some of my friends think that is boardering on abuse (low income, working class friends).

Personally my definition is that no child of mine should live with the burden of having parents who are weighed down with the stresses of owing money, living hand to mouth, going without basics. The bottom line is NOT living with the intolarable insecurity of being too poor to pay for bills and food etc.

That burden is not always connected to gross income. There are plenty of seemingly affluent families who live on a knife edge due to enormous debts and overspending.

There are plenty of families on low incomes who eat well, have warm houses and well dressed children.

And vice versa of course.

I have lots of kids, we are on a low income. I dont moan about lack of holidays etc because its my choice. I dont think my kids are deprived. We have our challenges but they are not due to choices we have made and are beyond our control. We will never be well off because of these issues but we get by. (not so sure we will if cameron gets in mind you )

well said chegirl