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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

aibu in thinking that the couples on the news

363 replies

TheUsefulSuspect · 02/03/2010 22:43

shouldn't have had a first child, let alone a second if they think there 1 Bedroom flat is insufficient.

Why do they think they deserve to be rehoused?

OP posts:
runnybottom · 03/03/2010 20:40

It has nothing to do with your income and circumstances. Its about doing what you want even just because you want and expecting someone else to pony up the essentials for you.

I have 3 in a 2bed house. Thats my choice and my responsibility. What we are talking about here is people having 2 kids in a one bed, or 11 kids in a 4 bed and saying..you owe me a bigger hosuse/more money.

chegirlshadabloodynuff · 03/03/2010 20:56

Doesnt mean they will get a house or money though does it runny? They can moan as much as they like, its very unlikely to get them rehoused.

People whinge about loads of stuff and their sense of entitlement can be as huge regardless of income/circumstances.

'I want a bigger flat of the council', 'its not fair I am not going ski-ing this year', 'my OH pays loads of taxes so why shouldnt I drive a Hummer' blah blah.

Its all the same really IMO.

bernadetteoflourdes · 03/03/2010 20:59

Chegirl we saved up for the first child in order to put aroof over our heads that we felt secure in. When i fell preg we were in a 1 bed flat on a tenuous holiday let I made a hard choice in termination but I dont regret it. We were not saving for private schools or hols just for basics cots clothes nappies all the normal baby basics. And I did not want to have the baby and just feel that the state should step in and divvy up. Old fashioned I know and saving for somethin is unheard of these days but it was my choice, and thank God I live in this country where I did have a number of choices. The welfare state was set up as a safety blanket but there are real few who regard it as their right to automatic support. I know I was at school with a few ( I am a w/class wembley girl and no judgemental snob.

runnybottom · 03/03/2010 21:03

Which makes it even worse.
Its not the same thing as moaning about not going skiing, because the poor feckin kid has to live in shocking circumstances. The woman with 11 complaining that he kids have never been to the cinema, its easy to tell her its your only bloody fault, you had 11 kids with no money or partner...but its not so easy to tell the innocent kid.

chegirlshadabloodynuff · 03/03/2010 21:08

I dont judge people for beliving private schools and annual holidays are important. If that is what someone's definition of secure is that is perfectly valid.

I feel the way I do because I grew up in a household plagued by debt. I have never got over those awful feelings of dread when the lecky got switched off or the phone didnt work anymore. Fending bailiffs off aged 12 and pretending I didnt know where my mum was when we got threatening phone calls.

I wouldnt have a child expecting others to pay for it. But equally I dont expect someone to set the standards of what I should have in the bank before I do have a child.

There will always be people who are dependant on benefits for the greater part of their income. I dont beleive that they should be prevented from having children. Anymore than I think the only women who should be allowed to have children are those who can afford to give up working or those who are in perfect health.

Children may not be a 'right' but they are essential for the human race to survive. That means even chavs being allowed to give birth however distastful that may seem to some.

bernadetteoflourdes · 03/03/2010 21:46

Yeah I guess even the mother of the 2 bestial brothers in Doncaster knew she had the right to have as many kids as she wanted but the ineffably silly bitch had a CHOICE and she blamed social services for not taking them off her sooner and said that the social caused the lads to turn out the way she did. Perhaps compulsory parenting classes for all pregnant women is a good idea after all but I still do not know why some women have a lot of kids then loathe an abuse them to the extent above

tethersend · 03/03/2010 22:07

"It's about whether taxpayers should provide the resources ie space/money for you to have more children, when you cannot provide these resources yourself."

Could the same not be said of IVF treatment on the NHS?

How come nobody is on the TTC threads telling everyone that having children is not a right, and criticising their sense of entitlement?

AnnieLobeseder · 03/03/2010 22:16

Very interesting how a load of new people turning up and not bothering to read what has already been said can take the thread in a new direction.

And also odd how before, we were all more or less agreeing that no-one should feel entitled to more just because they want it. And now a whole bunch have turned up who think it's a legitimate way to live.

MN at its most diverse!

runnybottom · 03/03/2010 22:18

No the same could not be said of IVF on the NHS. Pretty insulting to compare the 2 actually.

AnnieLobeseder · 03/03/2010 22:19

Ah, but tethersend, couples who seek IVF get one child out of the deal, any more and they have to pay themselves. The benefit is capped.

Whereas the people we're discussing keep coming back for more, with no cap in sight.

Portofino · 03/03/2010 22:23

Actually the IVF thing is whole other argument. I don't believe that the NHS can sustain these things either in the long run. I'm not making a judgement call on that, just that money is finite, and when it comes down to keeping people alive (or even treating them in decent conditions) vs non-life threatening conditions like infertility (and I know, I know), something will have to give in the end.

I would like everyone to have happy, fulfilled lives, and no child to ever go without, but the system was NOT designed to cope with all this.

tethersend · 03/03/2010 22:29

Annie, I posted on this thread before you

IVF being available on the NHS is indicative of the state's recognition of the basic human need to procreate to the extent they are prepared to fund it. It is relevant.

"we were all more or less agreeing that no-one should feel entitled to more just because they want it"

Yet no-one has come up with an ethically workable way of putting this dubious view into practice. How in the fuckety fuck does the state stop people having children if they are not financially able to deal with them?

tethersend · 03/03/2010 22:31

This thread is not just about more children, but as the OP states:

"[...]shouldn't have had a first child, let alone a second if they think there 1 Bedroom flat is insufficient."

It is about the right to have any children.

Mumcentreplus · 03/03/2010 22:34

I dont hate people who have had abortions its their choice, its their business and no one should be attacked for doing their job if its legal..ethical?..well thats for individuals to decide..but I dont share your admiration for them...i know women who have had 11 abortions..its not a form of contraception and as you said for some its a last resort but for others its not a option each choice should be respected..

Young people are taught to use both a contraceptive and condom..do they choose to listen? ..and for something thats not openly discussed british women have around 200,000 abortions a year so i think the word has got around..perhaps you are speaking about less stigma regarding abortion..

zippyzapper · 03/03/2010 22:37

since when do you have to read a whole thread to comment???

also this thread is getting a nasty tone - bernadette for example - assuming or an insinuation that "some" women who have loads of kids abuse them ---

Mumcentreplus · 03/03/2010 22:39

bluddy hell..

tethersend · 03/03/2010 22:39

I read the whole thread.

That's fifteen minutes of my life I'm never getting back.

runnybottom · 03/03/2010 22:40

tethersend...don't tell me you don't have a line that you draw?
So a couple in a 1 bed flat have the right to have a child. Sure, I'm with you. What about if they had a bedsit? What if they were homeless, do they have the right to have children? How many?

Does everyone, in every situation, have the right to have children? Is that right more important than the consideration of what kind of life it might be for the child?

2old4thislark · 03/03/2010 22:41

Portofino wow you think like me. I agree on the IVF issue too. The NHS cannot afford to look ater the people that are already here but spends money on trying to create new ones........

runnybottom · 03/03/2010 22:42

Meant to add...what about a side helping of responsibility with those rights?

zippyzapper · 03/03/2010 22:43

runnybottom - you are joking right?? have you ever been to a high density city??

runnybottom · 03/03/2010 22:45

Err, yes I have, whats your point? Whats that got to do with the price of fish?

RedRedWine1980 · 03/03/2010 22:47

Runnybottom are you Sage?

runnybottom · 03/03/2010 22:49

I like to think I'm fairly wise but if you mean as in posting name, then no. Should I know Sage?

Mumcentreplus · 03/03/2010 22:50

good job I don't give a shit eh zippy

like everyone is going to agree with each other..(obviously thought the thread had run its course)