not to know how best to help my DS re his weight?

[hatesponge]

My DS has, since the age of 18 months or so, been what would be referred to as 'solidly built'. somewhere between then and now - i think mainly in the last couple of years, he has gone from that to being distinctly overweight.

I dont know how much he weighs, in truth I dont think the actual figure is important. but he looks visibly overweight, and is conscious of it, particularly insofar as clothes for children his age (12) are far too small, he is now largely wearing adult clothes because nothing else fits.

For the last year or so ive been trying to encourage him to eat healthily, and not make too much of an issue of it, however, it seems to be getting worse. after easter he has to do swimming at school. he hasnt done swimming for a while (his primary only did one year of swimming, in year 5)and today he has asked for a note to exempt him from swimming lessons as he does not want anyone to see him without a top on

clearly he needs to lose weight. he already plays sports 3/4 times a week, so im not sure whether there is time for him to do any more exercise.

his diet is the area which needs to change. however his dad (DS lives with him half the week) will not modify the food he buys, and will always have cupboards stacked with chocolate, crisps, biscuits etc. so DS generally eats as he pleases there. He also takes money to school for lunch, and I have no idea what he buys, but I suspect it is nothing healthy.

I do want to help DS, but cant see what I can do, especially how I can change his diet if he wont agree and his dad wont co-operate.....

Cauldron sausages are good.

If he's not hungry before he leaves for school, he could take a 'packed breakfast' and eat it when he gets to school or at breaktime.

Hatesponge

Can you rephrase talks with him to not be based on weight do you think? I wouldn't base them on 'being healthy" either as he will know this is just code for "losing weight"

Why not discuss how the overeating he does makes him feel? Explain that he can eat whatever he wants but that if he overeats he will feel bad and it won't make him happier. Tell him he can eat whatever he likes, it is his choice as long as he accepts that the consequences are his as well

I think the idea of giving him control rather than taking it away is key. I was overweight at this age and my mother's continual attempts to control my eating made me eat in secret. Your son is 12, you will be having less and less control over what he eats not more. What he needs is to learn how to make the right choices not to have you try to make them for him.

He has to keep telling himself that he can eat whatever he wants it is his choice what he eats and his choice to live with the consequences of that. Then with time he may start to make the right choices for himself.

I really don't belive all the advice given so far about controlling the food in the house and what he eats will work (though I know the advice was given with the best of intentions)

Would you be able to go to therapy with him as I really think if you can tackle this issue with him (you say you have a difficult relationship with food too) then it is something you could work on together.

Please please try not to make it about weight though (hard though that is). Make it about him (and you) wanting to have a life that isn't controlled by food but one where you are in control. The only way to achieve that is to "take control" and part of that is really accepting the consequences of the choices you make.

I have had a weight problem all my life and 40 years of habit are much harder to break than 2 years. Your son has a chance of not being fat in the futre but ONLY if you don't embark on a programme to "make him lose weight". He needs to do control his own eating and separate food from his emotional well being and only he can do this.

Great post, bumbling.

Riven, complex carbohydrates are carbs that aren't sugar, so even white flour is a complex carbohydrate.

Carbohydrates don't keep you full - I think you're thinking of the fiber in wholegrain and wholemeal bread and pasta. (There's not much in there though.)

complex carbohydrates are carbs that aren't sugar, so even white flour is a complex carbohydrate.

Yes - anything starchy is 'complex'. However many break down to sugars very quickly (in the case of bread, while its being chewed - remember that lovely experiment with saliva in biology lessons?).

I find looking at GIs useful - trouble is there's precious few low GI foods DD likes.

My brother was the same - a big baby (always hungry so had baby rice in his bottle from 6 wks was a study child then got fat in his teens. Put un umpteen "diets" by GP, my parents, school but never really lost any weight till he was in late teens/early 20's & lost the weight because he chose to.

My Mum stopped buying any treats & gave him a packed lunch - he had a travel card for school so in theory he couldnt get his hands on any junk but he would go to my Nan's (they lived a couple of streets away) and she always had biscuits, cakes, crisps in and Grandad always had loose change to give us too. He would also go to friends houses after school. You need to teach him why his food choices are wrong & re-educate his mind & tastebuds to go for more healthy options.

IRosemary Conley does a GI diet - you dont need to sign up for classes, I saw one of her books in charity shop this week so maybe look on ebay/amazon.

sorry DS distracted me & I pressed send before I had finished...

Rosemary Conley does a GI diet - you dont need to sign up for classes, I saw one of her books in charity shop this week so maybe look on ebay/amazon. It might give you receipe ideas or list of suitable foods.

bumbling bovine,

that sounds like sensible advice.

I do think though, that this could be backed up by a few changes in the house, along the lines of simply not having crisps and choc and junk food in the house, but DO have a full fruit bowl, nice cereal (doesn´t have to be the cardboardie stuff!), nice yoghurts (doesn´t have to be low fat!)and even biscuits or crackers with cheese.

Maybe it´s also an idea to teach him how to cook? How to make his own pizza from scratch?How to do a nice omelet, or pasta dish.etc.

The problem with junk food is that it´s ultimately not very satisfying somehow, whereas a nice home cooked meal has that special something that does (or is that just me?).

Chandon

Absolutely. At the same time as giving him choice you support him by making the right food available to him as well and of course encouraging as much exercise as possible.

All that has already been said and I completely agree with it. But it is easy to focus on "what the right things to eat" are and to miss out on the fact that unless this 12 year old can find the motivation he won't stop overeating not matter how much his mother tries to stop him.

I think the key is to make it a goal to stop "overeating" not to lose weight. The overeating is serving as an emotonal crutch at the moment and that needs to be addressed. Once it has been and the overeating reduces (it will never be completely zero - everyone overeats eometimes), then he will start to lose weight.

The weight loss shouldn't be the goal though. This is so hard to do once you are overweight though because sadly being fat means you get a lot of abuse.

He need to accept himself for who he is and like himself at the same time as wanting to have a life that isn't ruled by food and overeating. This is VERY difficult to do when surrounded by the amont of hostility, aggression and loathing of excess fat that permeates society nowadays.

Instead what happens is that once a young person gets fat, there is often a vicious circle of wanting to thinner and a despair that it will never happen and how long it will take, then self-loathing and eating to surpress those feelings and getting fatter etc then more self-loathing etc.

Stopping overeating is a goal that can be reached much more easily than losing weight
Also stopping overeating is completely in our control on a day to day basis. whereas losing weight is variable (some weeks you do some you don't) and the rate of weight loss is not aways in our control.

What I mean by overeating is literally taking in more calories than we use. I make no distinction between good and bad calories. I don't think it helps to prescribe too much which foods can and can't be eaten, though you certainly can educate so that the types of food that are more nutritious and which are more likely to be satifying to your appetite in the long term.

this is a very quick post as am still at work, will respond in more detail later, was certainly not expecting so many responses. thank you all for your input. will return later & respond properly, just didnt want it to appear as though had deserted thread

Havent read all the pages...but has anyone mentioned going the education route? Show him the healthy food pyramid. Tell him about calories in vs calories out. Make it a challenge to eat via the pyramid every day. If you add it all up, it is actually quite a lot of food!! This also means he CAN have a small snack, so he doesnt feel totally deprived, iyswim? If he KNOWS the facts he may feel he can take control of the situation?

Agree shaming him will not work. Also, if the junk food is not there to eat, then he cant eat it!! I agree that he might get it elsewhere, but it wont be to the same extent, especially if you take away the means to get it!!

Get the junk food out of the house first of all.

Secondly, he needs to exercise and I mean really exercise. A 10 minute walk to school is next to useless - how many professional athletes do you know who have a 10 minute walk as their training?!

Might he be interested in something like boxing? It's great for your fitness and the weight will drop off him, believe me. Or how about a running club? You honestly cannot beat running if you want to lose weight.

If you want to start off by walking with him then you need to walk fast - so fast it feels slightly uncomfortable and you're out of breath. You really need to be sweating and you need to walk for 30 minutes like that.

If you want any more fitness advice let me know but the simple fact is that if he burns more calories than he consumes then the weight will come off.

But he needs you to help him - you're the grown up here.

ok, back from work now and able to try and address some of the posts:

the breakfast issue is a tricky one.

he used to have to leave the house quite early (7/7.15) and often didnt feel hungry then (I take Bonsoir's point that this could be because of eating quite late the previous evening so he was still full) and if he did eat would then feel sick, so became reluctant to eat anything. I did used to send him out instead with a couple of slices of peanut butter on toast which he used to like. He now leaves home later so has more time & so I have spoken to him this evening and suggested he tries to have some toast or cereal in the mornings from now on. We've agreed that I'm going to phone him in the mornings to remind him - because I'm not with him during the week I'm obviously not there to make it for him.

I've not mentioned weight to him in this respect, only that its good to eat first thing (I have tied this in to the fact I am eating breakfast atm due to being away through work and staying in a hotel) and have said to him that i find eating helps my concentration etc, and that I'm less hungry later in the day. He seems keen on this so is going to try and eat something, time and hunger permitting.

Clearly once I am home with him in the mornings again in 2 months time it will be easier to make sure he eats breakfast or takes something out with him. In the meantime, we will see how the above works.

Moving on, have taken on board the comments re lunch.

To explain, the reason I have let him take money to school for lunch was twofold. Firstly, when he was having a packed lunch in primary, he often wouldnt eat it, so would go all day without food. there was no alternative then, so it wasnt the case he was buying sweets/snacks etc. he just didnt eat. Secondly, when he started at the school it was clear very few children bring in packed lunches, not least because if they do, they have to carry around all day (there are no lockers etc at his school) DS only has one friend who has a packed lunch, which is due to the fact he is a vegan which the school dont cater for.

in terms of what DS eats at school, I dont know for certain. I have said it is probably not healthy. its not crisps or sweets though as the school dont sell them. I asked what he had for lunch today and he said curry and a bread roll...

I'll be honest and say at the moment I'm unsure what to do on the lunch point. Obviously at present I cant start him having packed lunches without his dad's co-operation (which is not guaranteed) I would prefer for DS to choose healthy food to eat at school. that may be over-optimistic.

I should add that DS does not live on a diet made entirely of junk food and snacks. He does eat a variety of foods. He eats most
vegetables (although he's not keen on salad veg, excepting cucumber) and fruit. He likes pasta, rice, baked potatoes (no butter, he doesnt like it) etc. he is not a child who eats a limited diet. the reality i think is that he probably does eat too large portions even of 'good' food. the suggestion of smaller plates is one I am definitely going to follow up, this will help me to gauge how much food I am giving him at mealtimes. I know that DS will eat whatever is on his plate, and more. If we can start off with a smaller plate, and then no seconds, I would hope this will help. I will also try and get into the habit of cooking just enough rather than too much, so there aren't seconds or thirds to be had.

moving on, in terms of exercise, as mentioned DS plays sport (football and basketball) at present 3-4 times a week ALREADY. I know there were a few comments about going for a half hour walk with him at the weekend. this was of course in addition to the sports he already does, and more about me starting to participate in some exercise with him. he is also keen to try out for rugby, and we are hopefully going along this coming weekend to a local club.

He has expressed interest in martial arts and kickboxing in the past. The problem has been either that classes have clashed with his other activities, or been at times when either I or his dad are at work. I will look into this again though to see if any of the times are more workable now.

Just picking up on a point about afterschool clubs etc, DS does football and basketball after school, plus 2 'academic' clubs. the clubs only last until 4.30 or so though, meaning DS is still home on his own for at least an hour. That is the time when I know he will be hungry, and snack on whatever comes to hand first.

Finally, DS is, and always has been very popular at school. he is bright but into football etc so is friends with the sporty kids and the clever ones. all his teachers comment positively on his attitude, how well he gets on with others, and his kindness. As a result has had little hassle from other children. that is another reason why i want to try and sort this out before he does get picked on or hassled.

apologies for the essay, i didnt realise it was so long

bumblingbovine, just wanted to say I take on board your point re not just making the right food available but also addressing the overeating issue. My own weight problems are mainly due to overeating, and my own goal for this year is to try and stop the cycle of overeating, of using food to improve my mood etc. It's something I've struggled with for the last 8 years. However, it is something I want to overcome, and to help DS to overcome as well.

I havent read every post so Im not sure if this has already been suggested but if he is eating a big lunch and pudding at School then how about giving him a packed lunch oin the evening instead, then hes not having two big meals a day.

Just a thought.

Hi sponge - seems we have something else in common my ds2 is also overweight although he is younger than your ds1.

Like him he plays sport. gets quite alot of exercise. I suspect some of his eating is comfort eating. He is also very popular and doesn't get teased.

With my older son (who has the opposite problem is prob. underweight) who is in Yr 8 it seems at secondary school not many pupils have packed lunch so I can understand why he might not want to have packed lunch.

They also eat broadly the same so genetics have some part to play.

I am also trying not to make an issue with food because I truly believe it is counter productive - ie demonising certain food.

It could be with puberty he will shoot up but of course that's hard to predict.

I am also hoping once the weather improves we will all be doing alot more walking.

Surely all these super healthy families are not going out for walks in the pouring rain and snow.

Will watch thread with interest.

Oh lord. Rather than locking the fridge up and stopping his pocket money, you need to talk to your son openly and honestly about his weight and how it can be addressed.

He's already opened the subject up with you by asking for the PE excuse note and being honest with you about why. He has acknowledged to you, however reluctantly, that he is unhappy with his body.

So have the converstaion with him. It will embarrassing for him and he may well try to avoid it. No-one likes discussing their weight and their willpower issues, but that's not a good enough reason for you not to have the conversation with him.

However, he is twelve. He's not yet an adult but he's no longer a small child. Like a previous poster, I'm unconvinced that he will respond well to having his diet controlled and his money curtailed, it will more likely breed resentment.

You say that he is bright, so ask him - what does he want to do about the situation, and how can you support him with it? He can't say that he's happy the way things are - he's already acknowledged that he isn't with the swimming issue - so give him some power and control over making the changes.

By all means have suggestions ready if he says he really can't think how he can improve the situation, but I reckon he'll be pretty aware of what he needs to do. It's just - like all of us - it's hard to put that knowledge into action.

A definite plan - one which he owns and has not been imposed upon him - that you can support him with might be the first step towards him achieving a healthier weight.

thanks SCL

not to make it more of a coincidence but my DS2 sounds like your DS1, he is very slim, yet if anything probably eats more sweets etc than his brother.

agree genetics definitely play a part. my Ex eats a rubbish diet - lots of junk food, crisps, chocolate, no veg (he'd never eaten a vegetable other than peas and potatoes before he met me, and has relapsed back again now) yet has remained the same weight, give or take a few pounds, for the last 20 years.

However i also think DS2 has more of an idea of when he is hungry or not, whereas DS1 will seem to eat regardless.

Hatesponge. I think you need to try and get through to your Ex and ask him to limit the amount of crap food that is in the house. If you can stop buying fattening food in also.

I would try not to demonise food and whilst it's OK for you to talk to your son about healthy eating please try not to emphazise his size, it really upsets children and lowers their self esteem even further to know that parents are judging them.

It's so hard and I really feel for you. Read lots of posts by mnetter who say their teens are thin as rakes but eat like a horse and I see it with the teens I know. It can in some part be down to puberty and genetics. I speak from having a DD who whilst not overweight is quite curvy compared to her friends and does try to watch what she eats. I say a little of what you fancy does you good. We don't have biscuits, crisps or cake in except on special occassions. I also know how hard it is when you love your children and don't want to deprive them of tastes they adore.

Also think that your DS may change his eating habits and exercise more by himself when he really wants to do it. By all means offer some encouragement and try and keep and eye on him so that he doesn't get any bigger but I think it's harmful to tell him he must lose weight.

A lot of kids are thin in their teens but put weight on as young adults and vice versa. It's good that you are aware but concentrate on the healthy issue/exercise rather than the weight issue.

Hi Sponge, when my DS was 11 he was a bit podgy and very aware of it. He was determined not to start secondary school like that so one night when I was sitting with him at bedtime
he started asking me about food and I was amazed that he genuinly didn't have a clue about what was fattening and what wasn't.

"mum, are crips fattening?"

"are strawberries fattening" etc etc.

I gave the correct replies of yes, no, slightly, etc and then he asked me if I could please stop buying crisps, biscuits .........

During the summer holidays the weight(he only had about 5lbs to loose) dropped off and he was so much happier.
That bedtime chat was the one and only time that we've ever discussed it.

I personally find the term "healthy food" very off putting, and think that sensible choices is much more empowering.

He can do this without feeling deprived.

My DC love salad and I buy very good quality balsamic vinegar (belazoo) which lasts for months and is liquid gold, it's so delicious.

Good luck. x

OP He is obviousley a LLF, make him behave as you wish.

I wholeheartedly agree with Custardo.

This is your responsibility. You will not sort it out by skirting around the problem in the hope that you won't make an issue of it.

There is an issue. A big one.

You need to do 3 things:

1. Take your son to the GP. Have him thoroughly checked over and get to grips with what you are dealing with. If you don't know how much he weighs or what his BMI is, you have no way of setting goals with respect to his weight and his overall well being.

1. Dependent on the outcome of the GP appointment (I strongly suspect that they would give you a referral to a dietician) then sit down with your ex. Make a joint appointment with the dietician, so that he can be there to assimilate the information that the dietician gives you. To be honest, he sounds ignorant and in total denial when it comes to your son's weight issues and is, in my opinion the crux of the problem. If your ex won't come to the party on this, then I would take legal steps to deny access, on the grounds of inability to provide proper care. If the GP won't refer you go private.

1. Implement the dietician's recommendations. Really implement them. Your posts are full of excuses and they silenty scream out your fear of facing these issues head on. If you are scared, your son will be picking up on this. He will be scared too. It is not a crime to be overweight. It is tough to face these problems but it shouldn't be approached as something to be ashamed of in the first instance. If your son feels marginalised at home, it's going to creep into every corner of his life.

There are many factors at play here. Yes, being overweight at school makes life 100x more complicated. Yes, your son's self esteem will continue to suffer. Mostly importantly though, you have a duty of care to ensure his health and wellbeing. Try not to focus on the overweight aspect. Focus on the health aspect. If your son was ill and needed treatment, you'd be off to the doctor like a shot. Please don't let that be diabetes or something similar.

Sorry if my post is harsh. You sound like you truly care, but I think you need a plan and stick to it. You are his parent and he needs you to do this for him.