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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that the choking risk is just a myth?

254 replies

BattyKoda · 22/02/2010 21:39

As in, "it's dangerous to put your baby/toddler to bed with a bottle/beaker as they might choke". Is it more dangerous than say a dummy? I have found one story on the web of a baby choking on a dummy, but can't find anything about the risk of choking on fluid.

(I have asked this on another thread but have had no response so I have put on my hard hat and am braving it here, please go easy on me )

OP posts:
nickytwotimes · 23/02/2010 11:40

Yep, you've asked if you are right.
We have said no.
You still think you are right.

Why ask in the first place then?

Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 11:44

Not the case thisisyesterday - on the other thread quite a few said they do it, or don't see a problem with it.

If one person had given me definitive evidence that it is a dangerous thing to do then I would not even consider it.

In fact when I had this converstaion last night with a friend I was trying to argue all these points (the choking, the teeth etc). So the original question was asked to give her some proof that it is a dangerous thing to do...

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 23/02/2010 11:45

Yup, just googled and choking on your own vomit is called aspiration. You are not actually choking on the vomit but are inhaling it and that is how you die.

Although I am assuming that at one year old the baby would wake up and remove the bottle? It's not a newborn is it?

Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 11:45

It is impossible to choke on liquid. So the answer to my orignal question would be that yes it is a myth, no?

OP posts:
Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 11:46

Rhubarb - not a newborn, a baby/toddler that is able to drink from a bottle/beaker independently

OP posts:
CinnabarRed · 23/02/2010 11:46

Battykoda, drop the whole "choking isn't that dangerous" argument. Time and again people on here have pointed out that the real risk is aspirating fluid, not choking. And as Rhubarb has pointed out, adults die of this as well as kids/babies.

Morloth · 23/02/2010 11:48

So now you are going to argue semantics? Why don't you just do what you want?

Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 11:48

"choking isn't that dangerous" What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course choking is dangerous

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 23/02/2010 11:53

Ok. Aspirating fluids is very dangerous and can cause death. So not is it not advisable to leave a newborn alone at night with a bottle of milk stuffed in its mouth - is your name Waynetta Slob?

However a toddler who is able to move about should be perfectly safe. Therefore why don't you just leave the bottle/beaker within reach of the child?

Choking is also dangerous, therefore do not leave your child unattended with food. Don't leave it a nice supper of biccies in its bed - again, are you Waynetta? Ensure that the child eats with you as a family.

So to answer your question, choking on liquid is called aspiration and can happen, but is unlikely in the circumstances you are describing.

SoupDragon · 23/02/2010 12:00

"I'm asking if I'm right"

No you're not, you are asking to be told you are right which is not the same thing at all.

catastrojb · 23/02/2010 12:05

wow - i have just come back to this and not quite reached the end so again, apologies if someone has just said this.... but, OP, fine if you still want to do it or somehow do not understand the dangers (yes, there are dangers, as many posters have pointed out!!!) but in reference to your comment to acebaby, telling a poster who has quite reasonably re-thought her practice of putting a drink in a cot with her baby and outlined her family-specific reasons for no longer doing so that

"acebaby - I don't think it is actually dangerous"

is just IMVHO arrogant, misinformed and pigheaded. And I have never written a post like this before on MN but it's actually really pissed me off that you would ignore all the comments here (that you asked for) and make a statement like that to a very sensible poster! wow.

but if you say it is not actually dangerous than clearly the rest of us are wrong so that's ok then.

we really really need a emoticon.

catastrojb · 23/02/2010 12:09

It is impossible to choke on liquid. So the answer to my orignal question would be that yes it is a myth, no?

ahh, so the wording is the important thing, not the potentially fatal outcome.

That's ok then. I will therefore give my baby a bottle to take to bed with her because she won't be choking, she will just be aspirating and drowning. which is somehow loads better.

I think you are now just trying to wind everyone up - not funny, big or clever, but if it makes you happy, it's working in my case.

Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 12:11

catastrojb - not everyone has said it is dangererous are you ignoring those that have said it isn't? Just because your opinion is different?

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 23/02/2010 12:11

Are you planning on leaving a beaker of water or milk?

Quite apart from any other risks, the thought of a bottle of milk left in the warm environment of a cot being sipped at all night makes me want to throw up.

Rhubarb · 23/02/2010 12:14

I think people are getting mixed up here. Although OP - you would get a nicer response if you didn't come across as quite so smug and know-it-all.

Aspiration of liquids is dangerous.

However the OP is talking about a toddler. Not a newborn or a drunken adult but a toddler. In that situation I would say that whilst it was lazy parenting, it is not dangerous.

But as a general rule, for babies, it is because they are incapable of removing the bottle from their mouths by themselves and should they vomit, they've a teat stuck in their mouths so the vomit has nowhere else to go.

Yes it is dangerous.
But not in the OPs situation.

Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 12:14

Aspiration: "As a rule of thumb, any condition which compromises a patient's level of consciousness is a risk factor for pulmonary aspiration. Absence or presence of a gag reflex has no bearing on a person's ability to swallow food or liquids safely.

Causes of unconsciousness where aspiration may occur include trauma (especially head injuries), poisoning (including drug/alcohol overdose), general anaesthetics, and diseases or metabolic conditions."

It's it very highly unlikely that this would happen to a child taking a sip of liquid during the night?

OP posts:
Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 12:16

Rhubarb - I really don't mean to come across as smug, and I certainly don't know it all. As I've said before I came on here hoping to back up my case that it is a dangerous thing to do, but from the reponses I've had, I've actually changed my opinion.

Thank you for your explantions

OP posts:
Lulumaam · 23/02/2010 12:17

forget teh semantics

we are talking about a risk, albei a small one, of fluid being aspirated into the lungs of a toddler. nonewithstanding the damage to teeth and stinky old milk being dribbled on t bed.

if fluid was aspirated, nothing might happen, the child could cough and splutter, maybe end up with a bit of an infection, vomit copiously and be fine, aspirate the vomit and die

there are small risks, but the consequences could be awful

if you are confident you are right, you don't need the approval or otherwise of a bunch of strangers. do what you want

FioFio · 23/02/2010 12:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

catastrojb · 23/02/2010 12:19

no batty, I'm not. I actually don't know the answer, but as I can understand the possible potential danger I prefer to go with that rather than take the risk, as there seems to be no earthly point why you would leave a drink with a baby (toddler, whatever) just to save yourself a little bit of sleep if he happens to wake. My opinion is just that, an opinion, but based on factual reports (many of which have been linked to on here - but given that you clearly belong in pedant's corner anyway, I do accept that none so far have specifically mentioned a toddler of the precise age that you are talking about) that make me want to avoid this particular tragedy.

I took agin' your statement to a poster that expressed concern about what she was doing and clearly agrees with many of us that the remote possibility of a problem is just not worth it (and gave a family reason why) that you thought it was not dangerous - the implication being that she was fine to continue doing it. I don't think you have any right to do that, particularly in the light of what many on this thread (not all, I take your point, and to those that disagree with me I am not ignoring you, just in case any of you cared )

Everyone will make their own decisions.

Rhubarb · 23/02/2010 12:21

Now the risks of infection, as lulumama said, are high.

Milk left at room temperature is ideal breeding ground for bacteria. If your child is a year old then if he is thirsty at night he should be given water. There really is no excuse for leaving a bottle propped up in a child's mouth unless, as I said before, your name is Waynetta Slob.

Is it?

A child is more likely to vomit back gone-off milk. Plus with the amount of bacteria in there, your child is more likely to succumb to an infection that may induce vomiting. So whilst aspiration of the milk may not be a risk factor in your particular case, because of the age of the child, you are exposing your child to other risks which are avoidable but for lazy parenting.

You still come across as a smug arse.

Original poster
BattyKoda · 23/02/2010 12:27

If I do decide to leave a beaker in with him, it will only be water, (like I do with my 4yo). I realise that leaving milk does pose more of a risk, and it is lazy parenting.

I don't understand what I've got to be smug about though....

OP posts:
catastrojb · 23/02/2010 12:29

neither do I.

Lulumaam · 23/02/2010 12:30

you asked if you were being unreasonable to think the choking risk is a myth,., it has been shown to categorically not be a myth

leaving a beaker of water, ok, no stinky old milk there, but it still carries the small risks discussed

Rhubarb · 23/02/2010 12:32

Because you've had lots of opinions and experiences. You never made your point clear. You never said where you stood on the issue, your OP says baby/toddler, you act as though you are merely collecting data. Everyone has given you time and information and you've withheld your reasons from us. You haven't been very clear and that is why posters have mistakenly believed that this is about a baby or that you were wanting to leave your own child with a bottle of milk. You've had plenty of chances to apologise for not being clear on the issue, instead you choose to take that person up when it's bloody obvious they've got the wrong end of the stick.

That is why you are smug.