Porn

[Bubbles01]

Am I being unreasonable for getting upset that my husband keeps looking at porn?

LeninGrad, I didn't bring the subject of women's behaviour up. You have to go back to Malificence's post where she brought up the article about the Russian rapes and said

"Mathan, they did, the Russians did it when they took Berlin and the Americans did it in Vietnam. There is an article about Berlin today, the older women gave the Russian
soldiers the younger girls to save themselves"

dittany then said
"That article sounds to me like a typical piece of misogyny"

which is when I tried to explain that it is not misogynistic. But I am not going to go through it all again, as it must now be boring other readers to tears.

dittany, I agree with everything you say. I agree to never mention it again.

mrs montague 'Bloody hell, these 'feminist' views make me feel far more repressed than men! I always shave everything and wear lingerie because I like it and feel sexier...it makes me feel more liberated than i would with a national forest between my legs and hideous underwear. Sure;y it's about a womans right to choose?'

Just because women don't shave does not mean they have a 'national forest' nor 'hideous underwear'

A lot of women may think it is their own choice to be bald one day in three and stubble for the next 4. No one thinks they could be influenced by their partner saying he likes her that way ?

I am a natural feminine woman. Hair and nice underwear

Dittany, not everyone can compete with your literary gymnastics.

I think you chase some people off, and inhibit some others from posting at all.

Not everyone has your breadth of knowledge and the appropriate links and references at their fingertips, but their opinion is just as valid. So, that is s shame, I think.

And after your response to me I am not going to reply.

One of the most shocking things about this thread is the way that women have turned on each other, so I don't want a slanging match with you as I am certain you will defend yourself, as is your right.

That is it. I feel it needed saying. Now I am going to go and eat my chicken kiev and watch Corrie

Seeing as I'm back from work now I can respond and say what my point actually was re my comments.

It was that women as well as men are capable of horrific acts and that not all women are naturally empathetic to other women/girls, it's hardly misogyny, just plain truth.

I had just read the article and that particular bit stuck in my mind as a deep betrayal, it doesn't suggest that I find the women guilty in the same way as the Russian soldiers, they were obviously the perpetrators - but I would have expected the older women to protect the younger ones, hence my shock.
There were plenty of Russian women soldiers in WW2 and I can't help but wonder if they witnessed that sort of abuse but stayed silent or even facilitated the rapes, it's not beyond the realms of possibility.
The incidence of female led sexual abuse is only just coming to light and will lead to experts rewriting what they know about the subject.

I give up - you simply aren't interested in any other point of view than your own Dittany and you twist peoples' words to suit your own agenda, of which I'm not quite sure.

How is me saying that women can be guilty of terrible things in any way the same as saying that men aren't responsible for their atrocious actions?

I know your intentions are good, but you have to take things too far every time and you end up making no sense. Do you think that all the women who do terrible things are influenced by a man?

The whole point of this thread is that nasty porn is no good for anyone other than the people making huge profits from other peoples' misery.

No-one ever does Leningrad, that's the total hypocrisy of it.

Women simply can't face up to the fact that other women are every bit as capable as men of vile acts and not all of them are acting under the influence of men.

Not all men are porn loving rapists and not all woman are saints.

Reminds me a bit of kids at school when we look at racism, who always say "Ah but black people can be racist too".. Though I might be missing a point somewhere.
Thanks for all the pics by the way. Watching Phil Spencer on Relocation at the moment which is my personal erotic preference!

I have read this thread from start to finish

I don't have anyhting new to add but I would like to say I am so glad I read it.

I have learnt things about the porn industry and the treatment of women in society that have really made me think.

I have a daughter and I want her to grow up loving and respecting herself. I also have a son and I want him to love and respect women.

But how do I stop them being exposed to this? It really worries me?

Agree with AF's post of 20:20. Totally spot on.

I think Dittany's point is very clear. When men and women do things wrong, there are many cases where the attention is disproportionately be put upon the wrongdoing of the women. So when a man murders children and a woman lies to give him an alibi, equal blame is given to both.

Nobody would claim that the woman's crime was anything other than horrifying and repugnant, but it reflects on our society that we repeatedly focus on the relatively lesser crime of the women involved rather than the greater crime of the men.

That is mirrored in this accusation on this thread that women can be as vile as men. While this is no doubt true in some situations, it is not true in the actual example we are discussing, because there is no claim that any of the women raped anyone.

(None of that is meant to suggest that there are not situations where women act alone or are the primary culprit).

I think pornography goes in cycles. At the moment we are in an age where it is spreading, eventually the cycle will change when society has had enough. It will need some kind of political change to turn it around.

I'm thinking that focusing on the (possible) racism a black person could inflict on a white is akin to focusing on the sexual cruelty some women are capable of - not saying it doesn't happen but surely so outweighed by the amount of male abuse of power.
Two wrongs don't make a right etc, but seems a sidetrack to me to focus on women's behaviour. Always seems that society focuses on women's behaviour (we are the problem, after all )

rose, I have a 14 yo dd and this thread has had me in tears today (and I don't cry easily)

the links and references, and others on similar threads have changed my mind about a lot of things

I was ignorant before, I feel better-informed, unfortunately

I post from my heart, I am not well-read on the subject...and tbh, I don't want to delve any further

because I might stop sleeping at night

thanks lemon x

I think it is a mistake to see women in the role of victims all the time. If you see misogyny around every corner then I think you are in danger of missing the real issues. Feminists are against pornography, and in that they have allies of the church and right-wing conservatism. Many of these issues do not concern women only, but the whole of society.

Lenin thought you were replying to me, hence attempt to defend my idea!

i hope so Claig
I really do