Another spontaneous night out for DH, now away on business do I.....?

[posieparker]

accept his calls?

Brief history:
Throughout our twelve year relationship DH has had a life without me, in fact the only social life to speak of is had by him. It is not rare for him to go out after work without telling me first. The last few occasions have had much bigger consequences than just making me go crazy. Once he didn't return until 5am, which was the time I had to leave to take my, always helping me out, sister and family to Heathrow, then the time that DS1 had his first friend home for tea and I had to ask my BIL to come and sit the dcs so I could take the little boy home(baby unwell and parking so bad on my road I would have had to park ten minutes down the road with maybe two children asleep), years ago he went out with work on our last night in our first flat leaving me to pack EVERYTHING.....

Him coming home with dcs awake means a pissed gregarious twunt of a man, making me nervous as he's so false and well drunk to the dcs.

anyway you get the picture

So he's gone away on business for a week(new thing to be going away so much) and missing ds1's birthday. Wednesday night he was supposed to be home at 5.30-6pm and arrived(after saying he was at the bus stop/taxi rank at 6.15, 8pm and then phone off) at 11pm pissed. I had told him at 6pm that I had no milk should dc4 wake up...not that he normally would but if he did and no milk NIGHTMARE.

Aside from DS1's birthday would I be out of order not taking his calls at all? I am thinking about him having no contact aside from that day in a bid to make him see what it's like to be ignored and for me not to be around or reliable.

PP, I totally understand why you wouldn't want to kick him out just like that, but your man has a drink problem.

How big a problem, is not perhaps known, but it's a problem nonetheless. His drinking is causing difficulties for his family, for you and ultimately it will for him.. in that if he doesn't grow up and take responsibility, then it'll kind of leave you with only one option and that is to save your own sanity and tell him to ship out.

You are going to have to have a difficult conversation with him about his going out, and his drinking. He needs to get it on a more reasonable and manageable footing, cutting it back and not just vanishing.

Long term, he's going to have to face the fact that he probably IS an alchoholic.

Why does everyone think he's an alcoholic? Going out on the lash a few times a month hardly an alcoholic makes?

It´s not the fact that he "only" does it once or twice a month-but that he does it at all imo.

Going out drinking not a problem.

When it impacts on family live,other peoples plans then it is.

It sounds as though he can't stop once he starts drinking though. My husband stopped going out drinking with work friends because so many of them were like that. They couldn't just have a couple of drinks and go home. Once they started they had to keep going until they could hardly walk.
That is a drink problem, even if you just do it once a week.
Whether he's an alcoholic or not depends on whether he could stay off alcohol for a week without getting unpleasant and irritable. It doesn't have to be DTs.
The OP says it's only occasionally, but in the original post said she had had no social life since being with him for 12 years. Also why is there so much debt? I couldn't live with a man who got me into debt. Maybe you are both bad with money, but it sounds as though this relationship has more problems than just him getting drunk occasionally.
He sounds as though he has no consideration for your feelings at all.

lots of similar experiences here....i have some too. i think a lot of it is the male way of dealing with stress. i hate falling back on the gender divide but reading all the responses there is such a pattern. i would be more than happy if dh went out once a week but came back at midnight and wasn't totally drunk - i could handle twice a week even if this was the case which i think is a lot since we have a 4.5 month dd. but no...this doesn't appeal to dh....probably he is too tired anyway but he doesn't want to go out little and often...oh no....he will also go months sometimes staying home then go a big bender, come home drunk and difficult, keep me up for hours, argue with me (you get the idea) and make cross for days afterwards therefore every time a night out is coming up i get really anxious and i dson't think thats fair.

since we have had dd dh has improved a lot - but its nothing to do with managing his own behaviour (he would like to think that) its because dd is such a novelty that 1, he doesn't want to go out, 2 when he is sober he does agree with me that you shouldln't be drunk around a dc, 3, i dunno, maybe he just tries a bit harder cos of dd.

meanwhile i always think alcohol makes the relationship revert to a parent/child dynamic. We (the dws) become the parent (the responsible one) and the dhs are the naughty children (irrsponsible, trying to get away with forbidden behaviour). the NY incident made me think of that - you are the parent - you should be available at all times to rescue him from his blunders!!

dh's mates make this worse 'oooh you're soooo henpecked!' if he goes home earlier than them (dh's mates are all his army squadron so they are pretty bad) - i know they put a huge amount of pressure on him to drink a lot. the first time i arranged to go out after dd was born he met up with them for a quick pint before coming in the look after dd so i could go out. they were so horrified that they piled all the furniture in the bar against the door to stop him leaving!

im not saying that op's dh shouldn't be responsible for his own behaviour but don't underestimate how much other blokes will pressure him (im just speculating) especially if he has admitted going out has become bone of contention.

i don't have infinite wisdom but one thing i have done with dh is say 'look, i dont mind you going out but i need to know in advance so i can organise the family....also i dont mind if you stay out all night but if you want to drink a lot you need to arrange to stay with a friend (insert most likely host) - that way you can have a good time and i dont have to worry' .....dh will go to great lengths to avoid having to do this...i dunno why - think he just likes his own bed....or maybe he is too embarrased to tell his mates why he cant stay at home

op i wish you some resolution - i know how difficult this situation cane be xx

if you can't drink without drinking to excess you have a drink problem regardless of the frequency of your binges

"i hate falling back on the gender divide but reading all the responses there is such a pattern."

it's not y chromosomes that are responsible

it's a culture that infantalises grown men and an expectation that they should be free to do whatever they choose while a woman skivvies after them making their permanent adolescence possible.

if you have tons of debt and are skint, then why is money stopping you for moving on with your life without this selfish loser?

i don't get why so many women on this board put up with behaviour they'd never mete out to others, much less their spouse, themselves.

my guess is you'll carry on with this man, but there's no way i'd let me kids see this type of relationship with me involved in it, because that would just fuck them right up.

sorry, but you're not doing yourself or your kids any favours staying with this loser.

expat is right.

the person denying these children access to an adequate father is him

Yes, but having a "problem" with drinking doesnt make you an alcoholic. Being an alcoholic means that you are addicted to alcohol. These days the term is being applied to anyone who goes on the lash at all, which totally trivialises it. There is a difference between periodic excessive social use and addiction.

Skidoodle- by your definition, anyone who has ever got drunk has a drink problem. I think that's a fairly extreme definition.

skidoodle - yes yes agree!!! (that is pretty much what i meant...not that men can't help themselves but that they all (most) do it.

i think you need to get some facts behind you before making any kind of decision

so go to a solicitor and find out about your housing situation and how that would work - who gets the house, ho the debts will be carved up etc.

phone shelter and also ask their advice

go on www.entitledto.com and work out any benefit entitlement.

go to cab and ask their advice.

at this point you are furnished with all the PRACTICLE advice to make a decision.

then you have to ask yourself, is this something your willing to live with.

look pp, you started off this thread being very angry and describing a situation that most people can't get their head around. then if you read your own posts ...it goes from (paraphrase) hes a total wanker to ignores me and the kids --> it only happens occasionally its not worth splitting up over.

so make your mind up - what's going on here? what are your fears? are you going to stay?

If you want to leave - it doesn't have to be an 'eastenders' moment with you chucking his stuff out on the street and calling him a bastard.

you can plan short to medium term. get any spare cash and squirrel it away - i think you should calculate what he spends on beer and take the same amount for yourself - your rainyday fund.

you can stay. accept that this is who he is - he has always been like this - he isn't going to change - but your willing to put up with 20% crap for 80% good ( if that indeed is what it is)

dh and i have been married 20 years, we have three children.

dh must get flat out passed out drunk every friday night. sometimes there is drama - sometimes there isn't, but hes not going to change - i'm not going to leave - so its something i live with. that's my decision.

Ladies I will return as soon as I've put the shopping away!!!

Well AA basically say that no-one can tell you definitively if you are an alcoholic but if it's a problem to you then AA can help (i.e. they are not going to say "sorry- not alcoholic enough for us. Come back when you've moved onto the meths".

I suppose my take on the Op's husband is that it's not really him drinking that she sees as a problem, but the fact that he is very unreliable/ uncommunicative around it.
The problem seems to be his lack of respect for the OP rather than liking a few jars.

However, I come from a background where people (family and friends) tend to like a few and i dont find people being pissed a problem per se, whereas some people do see drinking to intoxication as "bad".

Wow, some interesting reading here. I think the issue i have is that he never has just one when out, always audibly pissed which I find really annoying. Many times his enjoyment is at my expense and he thinks like a single man. The other night I was allowing the dcs to have a little bit of a late night and I had to send them to bed because he was on his way. He can be a little intimidating too when drunk, he's very broad and tall and I'm little...so he stands in doorways, switches off lights...the sort of thing you expect from a ten year old annoying a younger sibling.

Now my four dcs have finished their snack and needing my attention but I will respond later, hope you don't think me rude.

"Alcoholic" means very different things to different people so it can be a difficult term to use.

Having a drink doesn't mean you've got an alcohol problem. Having a drink and not being able to stop is an alcohol problem. Blowing off ones responsibilities in favour of drinking is also a problem, and one related to alcohol.

But let's try looking at this a slightly different way. Imagine that a few times a month he just disappears for the night, without notice, but he's stone-cold sober. Let's say he's a fan of bats and so sometimes decides to just go bat-watching after work and without a call to let you know he's out and won't be coming back. And sometimes while he's out watching bats he's ignoring promises he's made to you about being back by a certain time so you can do what you need to do.

Would this be acceptable behaviour to you, OP? Or would you see that as selfish and disrespectful behaviour (as I would)? He's not paying any attention to your opinion of his behaviour. But he does have the right to choose to live his life as he wants. You have the right to choose if that is acceptable to you or not.

posie - the enjoyment at your expense thing is what is unreasonable imo. if he is continuing to do something which he knows hurts you then that is a big problem.

The drinking is part of it all, I find it rather immature at 35 to be 'out on the piss', there are times that he works late and I have no problem as it's for all of our benefit. I also accept that part of his team building may include a trip to the bar every now and again, I can even stretch to every other Friday for an hour or so. I find it hard to believe I have married a man that can wait to get home and see his wife and four children.

I am very angry although that feeling is rather worn out, everytime it happens I just lose respect for him and it's another time he's let me down.

I just want him to stop.

He sounds like my stupid dad.
He missed my sisters birthday once because of a business trip and she's never forgiven him.

If you want him to sit up and take notice, like you say, I would sit him down once he gets home and lay it on the table:
I am not happy with this, if it doesnt change I won't stay.
Dont let him fall to self pity (dad does that too, I just tell him I'm not interested in that, only solutions and it seems to shut him up) and tell him you want to go to relate (if you do and I think it would help)

Good luck