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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that my 3yr old should not have to take himself to the toilet at nursery?

94 replies

twirlymum · 19/02/2010 09:03

I haven't been on here in aaaaages, but I know I can rely on you lovely ladies for some good old common sense, so tell me if I'm being neurotic please......

My ds (just 3) is due to start nursery next week. It is my third choice, as he didn't get a place at the others. I visited for the second time last week, and stayed with ds for the session. I was a bit shocked to find that the children are expected to take themselves to the toilet, and do not even have to ask/tell a teacher before they go.
This concerns me on a number of levels:
He is a boy. He very rarely wees in a straight line.
I think he will have trouble getting on and off the toilet (they are small toilets, but even so)
He will definitely have trouble wiping his bottom if he has to poo.
He forgets to wash his hands
He has trouble, and no-one even knows he is in there.

I would have thought that from a 'health and safety' point of view, they should at least have an adult there?

Your advice please.

OP posts:
MeMySonAndI · 19/02/2010 09:25

DS is 7 and he still doesn't do it perfectly. And from the visits of other children to my house, I think he is not the odd one out.

I can always resort to my ex MIL's hard handed practices and force him to sit to ensure the toilet is always clean. But I wonder if I would be rising then a child who will grow to be uncomfortable with himself and as annal as my ex in laws. (Go and search Freud for an idea of why we shouldn't make a negative fuss about toiletting

So, I'm taking it easy, it is not the end of the world.

nickytwotimes · 19/02/2010 09:26

We talk about it in the playground.

Plus it is a small community - trust me, if people are pissed off with something, word soon gets around.

I do think if a kid asks to be accompanied then they should be, but most kids can manage surely?

Allidon · 19/02/2010 09:27

I can see both sides tbh. You say your DS is just 3, my DS1 didn't start toilet training until he was 3y2m, and wasn't reliably trained until 3y10m (he started nursery at 3y8m), so if your DS is only recently trained I can see why you'd be concerned.

That said, I agree with the posters who say the teachers will be unable to take each child to the toilet individually. If the toilets are next to the class then I would think he will be fine, he will be able to shout for help if needs be. I'd be much more concerned if (like a PP) the toilets were quite a walk away.

I think YANBU to be worried, but YABU to expect the staff to take each child individually to the toilet. I would see how he gets on, and if any issues arise see if you can work out a solution with the nursery.

MeMySonAndI · 19/02/2010 09:27

"he will be a year old then and much more able"

What makes them able is practice, not age.

Bucharest · 19/02/2010 09:28

Btw- they love going on their own- spend ages in there socialising and chewing the fat.

MeMySonAndI · 19/02/2010 09:31

Yes, actually it's a tendency that last well into teenage.

Haven't you see all the girls gathering in the toilets to pass gossip at nightclubs?

EssenceOfJack · 19/02/2010 09:32

mii I know, it's totally ming. I only know as her friedn came round ehre to play and DD1 said she would help her as 'she does at school' That's when I spoke to the school.
Their point was that they onl yhave enough staff government ratio as it is, and if one of them is taking someone to the loo then they could have issuies, and what if one is gone and someone else needs to go? They aren't allowed to have less adults.
It does make me and I hold school wholly repsonsible for DD1's UTI's as she was coming home with dirty knickers until she stopped pooing at school and does it before she goes.

MarthaFarquhar · 19/02/2010 09:33

YANBU to be a bit concerned, and fearful of skiddies and other hygiene horrors

But there is just no way one preschool teacher can assist every child with toileting and still have time left over to do any activities.

I do feel your pain BTW, my DD has only just started potty training at 2.11. She is not a natural, and I'm sure she will find toileting herself at preschool in September a big challenge, even at 3.6.

Original poster
twirlymum · 19/02/2010 09:34

Wow, quick responses!

He was 3 last week. He has been out of nappies for six months, but is waiting for a referral to a paediatrician as our GP thinks he may need to be circumsized (another topic!).
He is quite independent, but what concerned me was that the toilets are down the hall, and the noise level in the classroom area was so loud that there is no way you would hear a child crying for help.
I think if they had to at least tell a teacher they were going it would make me feel better.

By the way, he's not my first born.

OP posts:
mii · 19/02/2010 09:34

It is no good practicing if you don't have somebody to correct mistakes and help out. Spending a year doing it wrong makes no difference to how able they are.

Spending a year, with somebody checking and saying 'next time try getting more paper/wiping a few more times/not filling the sink up so much' is what teaches them

Bucharest · 19/02/2010 09:36

Surely he will tell his teacher before he leaves her room to go down the corridor though?

nickytwotimes · 19/02/2010 09:38

twirly, if the loos are a bit away, then I can see why you might be concerned actually.

Ds's place have their own little loos within the nursery rooms so they are nowhere near the rest of the school which is good.

minxofmancunia · 19/02/2010 09:38

Hmmm I can see both sides to this. In the room dd 3.5 is in at nursery they are expected to go on their own, the toilets are just off the main room.

TBH I'm quite grateful for it as it's made dd a lot more independent at home which I can do with with a 5 months old ds as well! BUT...saying that it does bug me that the staff don't always know they are in there and so essentially that implie to me they're not been properly monitored.

Also I do think it matters if they have dirty pants/knickers. Dd regularly arrives home with skiddy knickers. it's unhygienic and can lead to UTIs. Also the supervision is pretty slack, dds friend most days is soaking wet through when her parents pick her up and the staff haven't noticed which is appalling.

The tolets are also horribel, really dirty. This issue is something which all the parents I've spoken to including us have brought up with the nursery. Hopefully this will lead to better hygiene and more supervision. I expect this as we pay alot of money for this care and basic hygiene and cleanliness AS WELL as promoting independence is what we're paying for.

DorotheaPlenticlew · 19/02/2010 09:41

I don't think you are being PFB. I am yet to begin training DS (2.5) and he is really not interested. I am not convinced that when he turns 3 he'll be able to do it all on his own, although I'd love it if he could!

at all these "I would expect a 3 yr old to be able to ..." etc etc. Surely there is huge variation between children and how capable they are at certain ages? Not all 3 year olds are the same.

Bucharest · 19/02/2010 09:42

Must admit, each of dd's classes had 3 little toilets in their own area, and the boys had to use a different one, and they were kept spotless (by the cook who hopefully washed her hands before getting them in the minestrone)

AmazingBouncingFerret · 19/02/2010 09:59

DS's nursery expects them to go themselves. However, the toilets are just off the main room, with no door so you can see into the toilet area. The toilet stalls have no locks on them and the sinks dont have plugs so they are unable to flood the place
DS turned 3 in December, sometimes he comes home with dirty pants but its not the end of the world is it? Just shove him in the bath and give him fresh pants.
Wouldnt like the idea of him going down stairs etc though...

threetimemummy · 19/02/2010 10:05

twirly - havent read all the responses but could you not ask them to put a story board up in the loos for the younger kids? A pic of toilet, paper, hands washed, flushed etc? thats what our preschool does.

littlerach · 19/02/2010 10:13

Our preschool's loos are off the main room and children have unsupervised access ot them.

However, a new child would always be accompnaied if they asked (or if the parent asked)because that's one of the keyperson's jobs. In the same way that a child who has just started toilet training would be accompanied.

Ofsted do like ot see visual guidance for children too. We have posters up, reminding them to use the loo, flush the loo, wash their hands then drytheir hands. Most preschool that I visit have these up.

Speak ot keyperson and i expewct they have some sort of policy or procedure for new children.

jobhuntersrus · 19/02/2010 10:14

I work in a preschool and toilet independance is encouraged as early as possible. Our toilets are situated right next to the playroom. Children have to tell a lady they are going to toilet but then go by themselves. If they are gone for more than a minute or 2 we go to check they are ok. Parents tell us who needs help with clothes, wiping etc so we can give support to those children. Yes sometimes little boys miss sometimes which is why toilets are checked and cleaned if necessary throughout the day.
Speak to them about your concerns. They won't make him go to toilet on his own if he can't manage but as the children get closer to school they need to be able to go by themselves.

largeginandtonic · 19/02/2010 10:18

Why not? My 2 year old takes himself to the toilet.

I think if the toilets are close and the handwashing is geared up for little people then it's fine.

PrettyCandles · 19/02/2010 10:21

Sorry, definitely YABU - and possibly a little PFB as well.

Taking yourself to the toilet and sorting yourself out is a life-skill. It is very difficult for us mums to let the LOs get on with it at home, we are generally far too eager to rush in and help. Or get frustrated at perceived mess. But at nursery they have the opportunity to take their time and work things out for themselves. I have seen (at ds2's nursery) children make a bit of a mess, stand and think quietly, work out what it is they have to do, and then clean up. Generally perfectly well - but by a mum's standards very slowly.

The nursery will encourage them to ask for help if they need, and will wipe bottoms if asked by the child. He can tell them before he goes if he wants a poo. And if he comes home with skidmarks for a few weeks or months, then just be prepared and clean him up as soon as you get home. He will soon learn, with encouragement and praise.

FWIW both my elder two went to a nursery where they had to leave the main room and go to the other end of the building to use the toilets, and were allowed to do so unsupervised once the staff were confident of the children's ability.

activate · 19/02/2010 10:21

am LOL at the thought of a teacher's job being to take 20 to 30 children back and forth to the loo all day

it seems daunting, but he'll be fine. He is not the first and won't be the last and he is no different from any other 3 year old.

Your job is to prepare him as best as you can so encourage the wiping, teach him how, encourage the washing teach him how

he'll be fine

largeginandtonic · 19/02/2010 10:24

Oooh i see the toilets are a distance away. That would bother me tbh.

largeginandtonic · 19/02/2010 10:27

Actually then again if it was one of mine they wouldn't be shouting for help.

They would just pull up pants or abandon them on the floor and walk back to the classroom

Original poster
twirlymum · 19/02/2010 10:27

I went with him when I stayed last week, they had been painting and were covered in orange paint up to their elbows. The taps are those push type ones (I know why, so they can't be left on and flood the place) but they were very stiff, so it took two little hands to push the tap down, then when they put their hands under, the water had gone off!

The cubicles don't have locks, but as I said, they are down the corridor.
The hygiene isn't the most worrying thing for me, it's the thought that an accident may happen, and the staff don't know someone is in there.

OP posts:
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