To think that the brides dresses and bridesmaids dresses in My Big fat Gypsie wedding are really tacky

[pigletmania]

Well they are! Nothing against the travelling community, they have good morals and attitdes, but imo the dresses were hideious! That poor baby in what can be described as a toilet roll holder thing . Luminous green bridesmaid dresses that look like Las Vegas showgirls, and brides dresses weighing 27 stone .

I just felt really sorry for the couple at the end (the girl was blonde with a HUUUUGE dress) talking about how their relationship was far from perfect and they had to make it work, they both looked so anxious and absolutely gutted as if they didn't know what they'd let themselves in for.

LEM you are right it's totally wrong to be racist towards gypsies. However I don't feel it's racism to disagree with certain aspects of their culture and traditions. No one will ever convince me that it's moral or right that it's ok for young girls to be married off into a life of servitude at a young age. I'll never think arranged marriages are ok but I respect that aspect of some cultures traditions.

I think these practices are essentially oppressive to women, whatever their culture.

i can't see )lucyellen) how on earth commenting on the girls' fashion sense is in any way racist.
i think some people are very touchy about discussions re the travellers, and look for any tiny comment to be misconstrued and then roll out the rascism and prejudicm row!

as far as im concerned ..im not commenting about their way of life,their culture,or anything other than what the programme was about..which was weddings.
everyone is allowed to voice their opinion,that is the premise of a forum.
so,i stand by what i said,the weddings i saw last night were IMO god awful

I agree Minx. On the one hand, I am impressed by their traditional values, but on the other, I can't admire a society with such a backward view of women - I just can't.

runnybottom - given that divorce rates are so low - how happy do the marriages tend to be 30, 40 years down the line? Do you have a couple of people living together and making each others' lives a misery? Or do they tend to be much more philosophical about it?

Are the marriages happy, basically?

And is there any hope of the women leading lives based less on servitude?

no, commenting on bad dress sense isnt racist - i mean, personally i think the boden brigade look drab and clonelike.

But to then follow up with comments like this "By pigletmania Thu 18-Feb-10 23:57:08
Yes because they marry within the family so mabey birth defects. " rings my bells - maybe im taking that out of context.

As for Chav bashing - that is quite different, Chav isn't a culture its a fashion trend and a term given to yobs in burberry hats.

I reported that post, because i was disgusted but it seems that its OK

Also what happens to the women who aren't married off by the age of 22? What happens to women who have a relationship outside the community or have a child before marriage?

Do traveller children ever complete their education? If so what do they then carry on to be?

For the person who mentioned Romany Gypsies - the irish travellers are not Romany. Try suggesting that to a person with Romany blood....

Ski - @ go Wang yourself.

I liked the dresses. I can't be doing with "understated", not for a wedding. I'd look insane if I wore something like the dresses in the programme but then I'm pushing 40. I would like to wear one though.

"But to then follow up with comments like this "By pigletmania Thu 18-Feb-10 23:57:08
Yes because they marry within the family so mabey birth defects. " rings my bells - maybe im taking that out of context."

But the girls on the show themselves said that they do marry cousins. This in itself is perfectly legal and not likely to lead to birth defects - but when it happens continually within a community, it can (not necessarily will, but can) lead to problems - I mean look back in history at various royal families.

Pigletmania is only saying 'maybe' - and she is right. It's not wrong to say this.

I wondered if the traveller community were more likely to marry cousins, because they all grow up as a group anyway. They know everyone so well and have done throughout their childhood and adolesence, that non-cousins are as close as cousins and it's not something you differentiate on in the way 'we' do. This is just my pondering - not saying it's the way it is, necessarily.

Are they happy? Well I suppose many are. But marriages wouldn't last as long as you think because they have a lower life expectancy.
half of all travellers will die before their 39th birthday, so you have a decent chance of being a widow at 35.
Travellers have twice the birthrate of the rest of Ireland, the highest in western europe, theres a solid chance you will have 8 children or so.
There is also a good chance that you will lose at least one child in infancy 1 in 10 traveller infants will die before the age of 2.

A recent study showed Traveller women were ?shocked? to discover emotional abuse and rape within marriage constituted domestic violence. Domestic dsiputes are dealt with by the parents of the couple often.

Whether the women are happy or not is a very difficult thing to judge, and they are don't tend to share with outsiders.

Well i know a traveller who is a policeman, so yes minx, i guess some of them do! Oh and my friend came from a travelling family - shes a social worker in child protection. Yeah, some of them EVEN go to university!

I dont actually know very much about travellers - i do know that their culture is very different, I dont agree with the woman's role within it, but i dont agree with women's position in other culture, but its not my culture - so i wouldnt dream of deriding it becuse i simply don't know enough of the history to cast an ill thought out opinion on it.

Personally, i think its pretty shallow to slag off peoples dress sense anyway - i have honestly more important worries than if someone wants to dress like a toilet roll holder for their wedding.

Stepping away from this thread now - bad taste in my mouth.

As for the OP - "i have nothing against travellers" you might have just as easily said "I'm not being racist but........... and then went on to pass your racist comments anyway

Zigg - i agree with you, but when that post is written by someone who started a thread about how horrible their dresses were and then seemed to jump in the minute someone mentioned the cousins and birth defect thing - birth defect?? horrible phrase - no, its unpleasant.

I am going now, been back oooh a couple of hours - and no, the door wont smack my arse on the way out - enjoy your judge fests

A lot of the cousing marrying thing is probably due to lack of choice - if you are dead set on marrying somebody from within your own culture there might not be many other people you know, other than family. It's a bad idea though.

Royalty: link

I know Clary they lack taste on so many levels. I saw a lady who was about a size 22+ wearing a las vegus show girls outfit, no no no what would Tranny and Suzannah say

Tacky to you but not to them presumably. I think those sleek slimeline off the shoulder jobbies that seem really popular are a bit boring and yuck personally.

If it hasn't got a corset and a bunch of petticoats then it isn't a wedding dress!

Mine of course was perfection itself.

There are far higher rates of birth defects, because they don't just sometimes marry cousins, they often do, and everyone is pretty much related somewhere. Add to that the fact that the traveller community carry a particular gene for a metabolic disorder and you have the recipe for that.

traveller children rarely complete formal education, and almost never go on to be "professionals" or even work outside of their circles. Traveller girls simply don't have relationships outside, and do not have babies outside marriage. Its that strict.

No I am not racist Lucyellensmummy how is criticising someones dress sense racist tell me please? Blimy get a grip you lot, this was meant to be a light hearted thread not a political argument fgs. I am Armenian and when there is an Armenian wedding omg some of the dress sense is so bad, like they are 70's 80's throw backs and really tacky, well in my family anyway.

Isnet it true that if you marry frist cousins or half brothers or sisters anyway you are more likely to have a child with birth defects, i have friends who were i think first cousins and they had to be genetically tested to see if their children were more likely to have defects before they married, not racist biological fact, in any situation where you marry within the family.

Actually I hate people bleating on about "good" taste. Have some quotes (I'm not clever enough to justify my YABU myself, and freely admit to Googling all of these):

"It is good taste, and good taste alone, that possesses the power to sterilize and is always the first handicap to any creative functioning"

That was Dali. Uncle Pablo* said:

"Taste is the enemy of creativeness"

And George Bernard Shaw:

"A man of great common sense and good taste - meaning thereby a man without originality or moral courage."

*I'm not really Picasso's niece. But it was nice to pretend for a moment

Morloth couldn't agree more. Not that I've seen your wedding dress,

And why such poor health generally and morbidity and mortality rates runnybottom? Is their access to healthcare compromised in some way? Do they prefer to self treat?

In 15 year of working in mental healthcare, I've never cared for a person from the irish Travelling community (although I have "New Age" travellers different thing entirely though). I assume these people have mental health issues as much as the general population, do they prefer to keep such things ampngst themselves?

They strike me as a proud, very private population although I may be wrong.

So were are all meant to think like robots than and have no view or opinions on stuff eh. Big brother state is already happening, we have to think like the collective then?

Interesting quotes, Otter!

I think pebble-dash houses are hideous - what does that say about me?

Of course there are higher rates of birth defects and genetic problems.

DD's consultants are always pointing out to their students that her type of blood clotting disorder is much more common in cultures and ethnic groups which have high rates of marriage between cousins.

As for the OP I do agree with the poster who pointed out that the wedding dresses typify the sort of thing a child might choose. Can't think of an excuse for the relatives outfits though.

re OP
I suspect that was in fact the entire premise of the programme