To want to be acknowledged? (Long, sorry)

[Vivia]

Let's say I'm called Jane and DH is called John.

Background: I would say my MIL is narcissistic and my FIL is her enabler. A weird couple: they socialize with no one at all except me and DH. Their other son is abroad. They talk to relatives on the phone. They are clearly envious of DH and I having PhDs (like it's a big sodding deal!) because they failed their degrees. They mock us constantly and say nasty remarks each time we meet. They claim that we hate them when actually we invest hugely in our relationship with them: nothing is too much for us. They are not nice people and are passive aggressive in subtle ways. E.g. DH is hugely conscious of his dental problems and is waiting for treatment. They gave him a vampire costume as his birthday present, the bastards. They hate each other and seem jealous of our relationship: DH and I really are best friends. They are constantly criticizing us, yet can't stay away from us. The first time I met MIL she was shit-faced in a luxury restaurant screaming 'my son's a bad son! You're a silly cow being with him!' He is a wonderful son to her. I try my best to be a friendly, caring DIL even though I can't stand my PIL. DH wants to disown them but can't because they are family and he is too lovely for his own good. I could go on and on.

Short story: DH and I have been together for many years, married last year in secret (then told them afterwards). Last week, MIL referred to me on the phone to her cousin: 'John's here for dinner. With his friend, Jane'.

disown them - life's too short to spend it trying to please such toxic people

I agree Becky, sadly DH can't quite make the final break. I don't just want acknowledgement of me, but of how good a person DH is too.

Why bother seeing them? Seriously, tell John to get some balls and walk away. They are cruel and nasty - you are a lovely couple. Do not let them spoil your happiness as they have done their own. they're grown ups, and not your responsibility (or your DH's)

Disown them.

But first tell her what a dick she is!

They wont change.

If Dh wont disown them, then just refuse to see them or have them in your home.

they're not going to acknowledge him. They are in their own little 'poor me' bubble and will never acknowledge him. The best you can salvage is a couple of meet ups a year where you ignore their antics (imo).

they will not acknowledge him. So yabu waiting around for that while they hurt you both more and more- sorry

Don't apologize potpourri. This is all really useful.

DH gets so close to telling them to fuck off, then something dramatic happens (convenient, no?) that changes things. Last time, DH emailed saying 'we need a break, we won't see you for some time'. Panicked phonecall from FIL: 'Your mother is in hospital!'. Why? She broke her arm. How? Punching FIL in the face, angry about my DH's email. Then they 'needed' us to help them around the house. We are so bloody soft!

Sorry, don't mean to reveal things not in OP.

She punched her husband in the face so hard that she broke her own arm?

Cor.

I mean, sorry. But, cor.

Of course you're NBU. But you are being optimistic. They sound awful, and toxic as hell, and seriously if you want your DH to be acknowledged, I will:

If he grew up in that environment and yet is loving and caring and an equal partner with you, that is one incredible man.

Aw! Tortoise! That sums up my feelings about him entirely. Thank you.

vivia - they sound like nutters to be frank.

screaming in a restaurant, punching FIL... or at the least domestic violence.

I would not let these people in my life or keep contact to a minimum. Dont send emails saying "we need a break" grow a pair and tell them you will not have that sort of nonsense in your life!

Angry on your and DH behalf for allowing them to treat you both this way and in a way you are both enabling their behaviour.

isn't the medical drama one of the predicatble retaliation steps that comes from confronting toxic parents / inlaws? I'm sure I've read it one a thread here before. It's like a script that these sorts of people follow to get their own way.

I should have a look at those threads, becky: I've noticed all the stuff on narcissism in Relationships.

Yes, the medical emergency rang a bell with me too - not personally thankfully, but from other threads.

If your DH won't cut the cord, couldn't you perhaps choose to be less than convivial to them? Nothing malicious, just being truthful to their faces, e.g. when they make a nasty remark, acknowledge that they have done so e.g. "That's nasty. Why did you say that?". Just don't be a passive audience to them. Not that I think it would change their behaviour, just so that it would fester a little less for you and DH.

Great idea, WhereYouLeftIt - it would make us less passive at least.

The medical 'drama' does sounds very familiar. If your MIL broke her own arm punching her husband in the face...well...freaking eh - you need to cut ties. If you have children it could be very damaging for them too.

My grandad's not violent but is very passive-aggressive and extremely manipulative. If my dad ever puts his foot down about anything, grandad immediately has a 'funny turn'. After years of putting up with it, dad finally realised what was happening, moved grandad out of our home and then moved up north to get away from him. We've not cut all ties, (he lives very close to me) but he just can't be as controlling at a distance. He still rings and gasps down the phone but my mum doesn't put up with it and he rings me for sympathy instead

I really feel for you both - they sound appalling. It's interesting that you call your FIL an enabler; I wonder to what extent your DH has also had to take on that role to survive growing up in such a family. There are some similarities with my DH's family and he dealt with it in two ways. With his father he chose to stop all contact and, many years down the line and having become a father himself, doesn't regret the decision at all. With his mother (his parents are divorced, obviously), he has spent many years trying to mop up after one drama or another. More recently, and after much discussion, we took the decision that we would just try not to get drawn in and would, instead, treat her like a bit of a stroppy toddler in that when she's on good form then it's lovely to see her and when she sulks we simply ignore her (yep, easier said than done). Your situation is obviously different but I wonder whether there's a stage you can reach whereby your DH can feel as though he is 'doing the right thing' and maintaining a relationship, rather than losing all contact, but, at the same time, withdraw quite a bit so that you see them less frequently and only when it suits you. I was struck that you said you invest heavily in the relationship and I wonder what message that sends to them. Perhaps if you cool things down, see them less and devise ways of tackling them there and then when they do or say appalling things then you might at least feel as though you have a more honest relationship with them. It's doubtful that you will change them, your DH, to his credit, will always love them, so perhaps your only option is to regain a bit of control.

Either that or poison the bastards.

Yes! We do try to think of her as a toddler: sometimes she's fine other times awful. I guess we deal with it using WhereYouLeftIt's suggestion: comment each and every time she shows unacceptable behaviour, as you might with a child.

I was gone for an hour just now because I was upstairs doing housework (day off) and I heard the door open. DH is in meetings all day so I was a bit shocked. Shocked to see that PIL had let themselves in using a key! We gave them a key for emergencies/if we are away. Never did I expect them to use it! I thundered downstairs and asked them what they were doing. 'Oh, it's freezing and we were bored going round shops and cafes, so we thought we'd visit you'. Except they couldn't have known I had the day off! They were clearly just going to doss in our house. I told them they should ring first. MIL was sheepish and 'hid' by FIL like a child might. Fuck sake! I told them I was workling from home (lie) and (stupidly) offered them coffee. But they said 'no no, we won't bother you'. Damn right you won't! This may be what convinces us both to cut them out.

Batshit crazy!

Christ on a bike, that is scarily bonkers. They let themselves in when they had no reason to think you or DH were at home??? Time to abandon all concerns about hurting feelings, embarrassing them, etc. and just lay down the law (and, of course, get your key back).

Yes, Prinpo. In a way I'm delighted: finally something weird enough and important enough to say 'this stops right here'.

Change the locks!!! Now!!

Yup, change the locks. Find another keyholder for emergencies as these people clearly aren't trustworthy.
Otherwise, probably the best thing to do is accept that they are mental and will never break down and repent of their awfulness, so the only thing to do is keep contact to a minimum (rather than a Big Showdown, which never works and leaves you feeling either foolish or hurt as they react with agression and unkindness) and when they start, just keep reminding yourselves that they are nuts and nasty and there's no point in worrying about them., just let it slide off you.

sounds to me like they were planning to go through your stuff!

You'll never get what you want from them (acknowledgement, a healthy relationship etc) eventually, for the sake of your sanity you're going to have to bin them!

OMG. I would get yr key back (to make a point that they are unacceptable) but still change the locks in case they have made a copy.

Wonder if they have done this before?

at letting themselves into your house when they thought the house would be empty (if they were coming visiting they'd ring the bell ffs). Must agree with heQet - cold my arse!