to think that if you had a good birth experience with your dc's you should recognise that not everyone is that lucky?

[queenoftheslatterns]

and obviously vice versa.

on FB last night one of my friends (obviously watching one born every minute - ive sky+'d it to watch later) stated that the women were making a fuss, she didnt moan at all, giving birth is easy and natural.

on here too, there were a few threads calling the women wimps etc. we all know that not everyone has a great time of it. a lot of women need medical intervention and giving birth is still quite a risky thing for many women. yes, its great that some women have "soap labours" a bit of straining and baby's out, but for a lot of women labour is scary, exhausting and very, very hard work.

"So this is what I tell people when they ask me about my births...that the more information you have the more likely you are to have a better birth experience regardless of what actually happens"

OK, BUT how does this knowledge help in the following situations

you are overdue and they insist on inducing you, and tell you if you dont baby is at risk
labout for whatever reason, takes ages
baby is breech
baby gets stuck
baby is not positioned right
things slow down for no reason
babys heartbeat starts to slow down

Some thimes things FUCK up, and it upsets me that some people thinks its their fault cos they did not do X,Y,Z

Hopefully Druid will come back to respond as that last quote is from one of her posts... but from my experience I would say that knowledge helps by:

-Providing you with facts about why some of the above MIGHT happen - eg why the heartbeat might decelerate.

• Providing you with strategies which may help when things aren't as good as they could be ( eg mother changing position in labour can help get baby into better position)
• Helping you make an informed choice about where to deliver - I investigated my local hospital and my local MLU and from the information I gleaned about their approaches, I made an informed choice to deliver in the MLU.

It was very clear that the hospital had a policy to intervene far sooner than in the MLU. They also had a policy of monitoring the mother continuously in certain situations which I didn't feel happy with.

Of course, there are some situations which no one can legislate for. My dc2 had to be delivered by csection - very prem and breech. However, the majority of births are low risk, and have a very high chance of a positive outcome without intervention.

It's very helpful to have a general knowledge of birth, pain relief etc, and also a specific knowledge of your locality, intervention rates at different hospitals etc. Those are the things which can help you make an informed choice.

I am unfortunately a birth sceptic and phobic, it will take a small miracle to sway my opinion. I know that too! and its not helping me! deep down I know that some people have OK, in control births but I cant imagine it happening to me. I think drugs, pain, stress, pain, stress and fear

maybe I will come post here Sept about my amazing 6 hour water bith in the MLU!!!

I have found people dismiss my 'easier births' as me being lucky it was easy (I've had every which way so can relate to most).
This actually really pisses me off because though in those cases I was lucky that I dilated , no shoulders got stuck etc I also give myself a lot of credit because I did everything I possibly could to give myself that good experience and it also hurt like buggery but I expect it to so no it wasn't less painful for me necessarily just to me thats part of having a baby.
I've also had a horrendous experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone so my very painful 'normal' labours tend to get played down.

You just can't compare, some people internalise pain (me) and others let it all out (best friend) does that mena hers hurt more than mine. There is no way of comparing and if one person decribes their birth as horrendous, whos to say whether in fact it was better or worse than the next persons. All it does it compare against that person expectations.

I did my research, weighed up the risks and opted for a cs (DD was breech)- I am really happy with my choice.

I am surprised by how often people in RL tell me that I could have had a natural birth- I would never dream of pointing out to someone who had a natural birth that they could have had a cs. As much as choice is respected, it seems some choices are more respected than others.

Although not on this thread. Everyone seems really balanced. It's freaking me out.

having watched the programme now I felt very sorry for her and very emotional as the room filled with people, she was obviously terrified and had no idea how to cope with the pain.

I have to admit though I'm always a little surprised by the amount of people who go in not realising that having a baby hurts...a lot. Is TV to blame with their tights on, one yell two pushes births?

To find the expression 'birth experience' truly nauseating
From the same pile of nonsense as all the 'solutions' we are offered these days. Aargghh... dinner experience, diving experience, walk in the bloody park experience.....
What's wrong with having a lovely birth or horrible birth? This pseudo management speak muddled with marketing terms is vile.
[rant over]

YANBU. I had to have a csection as ds was breech so I have no idea what labour is like as my experience was completely painfree.

I'm pregnant again and have no idea what to expect this time. I have family members that have had horrific painful experiences and I have relatives that have had lovely natural relatively painfree experiences. It isn't a question of bravery, a lot of it is down to luck.

OP, your FRIEND posted this. she is your friend, why ?
I disagree with everything smallorange posted.

I had 2 cs's. I feel greta about them. I have alot of sympathy for nightmare birth stories.
I found bf easy. needed a tiny bit of help, so went to a support group, but had no problems. I don't assume thta those that do have problems, don't really want to do it.

I find this thread wierd. I don't feel this way about these things. I am shocked by many of the comments. Is this what you all think ?
Very odd.
I never considered myself to be that sympathetic, but clearly I am . all you others must have had an empathy bypass !!

bronze - I think there's some truth in that. That's why the most useful bit of 'advice' I had beforehand was from a mother who told me it would be pain on a scale I couldn't imagine! All the preparation - relaxation, breathing etc - was great, but not at the expense of the reality of it. It hurts like hell, no point trying to hide that!

YANBU - Just respect their experience and try not to judge ..... too much

YANBU

Birthsa can differ so much- my first almost killed ds1 and I (linked to eclampsia), second was 44 hours but relatively pain free, third 3hours and horrendopusly painful, last 35 minutes but really painful for that short time.

Every birth I have had I have disintegrated at transition into a mess; have long relaised its a sign baby 5 minutes away but looks appalling apprently.

Based on all that, I think I can assume that a birth can vary so widely that your own isn't any guide at all.... my Mum always sais she doesn't get why peoplescream and she had silly easy ones so how could she know?

What I'm trying to say is that if you have never experienced problems with things people consider natural, then it's hard to fully appreciate other peopls experiences.

So a natural, easy labour is bloody painful. It's a total struggle. So someone who has been through that may find it hard to understand why someone else opted for a epidural even though the circumstances arevdifferent.

The same with bf - my first two were reasonably easy yo bf ( one in SPUC with meningitis another with jaundice) but the third was a nightmare and I nearly gave up. And suddenly I could see that I thought I had experienced problems with the first two - And thought people give up to easily-but these were not on the same scale as the third.

I've had three c- sections btw!

no smallorange, i do not find it difficult to imagine/relate/try to comprehend, on an issue that is the polar opposite of what i have experienced.
i find it very easy to think, god that shocked me, i have no experience of that, i bet that was ... awful etc etc.
maybe i just have a good imagination. empathy.

ds1 was induced, OP postition, i was put on synotocin drip which was too strong,epidural took 2 hours to be given from when i was asked, ended up pushing for just under three hours, almost ended in emcs, but given episiotmy and managed to get him out he was nrly 9lb. flaming horrific experience, stitched inside and out, couldnt sit down for weeks etc

still cant fully appreciate that girls position and still hold the opinion she should of been sent home for paracetomol and a bath when they realised shortly after she arrived she wasnt in established labour. I also still think she was acting up a bit to the cameras.

I think that it's just a case that people need to be sensitive of what is really a VERY sensitive issue. I did everything I could to have a vb and it was not to be because of blood pressure. I really resented other peoples comments in the aftermath of the cx a selection of which were:
"you were very lucky to have got off lightly with a cx"
"do you think eating too much salt contributed to your problem?"
"oh well, some people arent designed to give birth"
and the classic from my SIL:
"my friend was in labour for 1hr20mins, she's the hippy type though-you know, down to earth"

I could have headbutted her

None of us can get inside another person's head.

I find my own children an interesting example here: one of them used to scream, cry, panic at every tumble, while one of them used to fall over and jump straight back up with barely a murmer.

Now, it's perfectly possible that they have hugely differing pain thresholds, and what felt like agony to one was perfectly manageable to the other.

Or it's perfectly possible that one was a wimp!

Actually, the one who tended to make a lot of noise and need lots of comforting was the more nervous of the two, which I suspect has a lot to do with it, because I believe fear alters one's perception of pain, it tenses you up and heightens it.

Just my observation from two of my kids, but it's interesting how different we all are.

Disclaimer: that was purely an observation about pain. I am well aware that some women have complications in pregnancy and labour which mean that interventions like csections are needed!!

Yes oblomov. You do. Well done.

Anyway when I opted for c-section instead of vbac for dd2, I found I had alot of justifying to do with friends who had natural labours. Never mind about the nightmare of the first labour, that dd1 was seriously ill, that she was taken away at birth.

I guess oblomov we will have to disagree in this one.

YANBU. I had two 'good' elective sections. And no I wouldn't swap em for waterbirths. But a couple of friends of mine had 'good' home births. And then other friends have had a range of experiences ranging from the 'fantastic if a bit scary' (baby arrived in hall as ambulance turned up) to 'bloody awful' (screaming for hours for pain relief which never arrived). Quite a few would probably describe it as not very pleasant, to say the least. Oh, but all of us were more interested in the resulting baby than the 'birth experience'.

The point I was not-very-eloquently trying to make is that knowledge gives you control and options, which is what my first birth lacked. Had I had these then despite birth not going how I wanted I could have felt that I did have a say in how my baby was born and that I did my best for my baby given the circumstances...what I was left with is a feeling of 'oh shit if only I had known'.

So, I'll deal with that list individually...whilst being oddly reminded of the course I'm doing...

you are overdue and they insist on inducing you, and tell you if you dont baby is at risk

you could know what the risk is, how much it increases after certain points and make a decision to be monitored rather than induced, to be induced after a certain point, or to be induced right away...knowing what to expect.

labout for whatever reason, takes ages

(DD1's birth is relevant here!) you would know to keep eating and drinking, to sleep/rest as much as possible, movements and positions to try to help, at what point you might decide to have pain relief, just to mention a few (I was very very naieve...)

baby is breech

You would know that vaginal birth of a breech baby is possible, the risks involved and be able to make an informed decision based on the facts rather than just being told you'd have to have a c-section. If you found out during pg, you'd know about OFP and external version.

baby gets stuck

Gaskin manouver!

baby is not positioned right

(DD2 is relevant here, posterior brow presentation) You'd know that odd positining isn't always an indicator of a need for c-section, OFP again, you'd be able to make the decision WITH your HCP rather than having it made for you.

things slow down for no reason

Again, positions and other things to speed it up (including the drugs if you and the HCP felt it was necessary)...and the knowledge that sometimes it happens and there is not necessarily a problem, it way well speed up again on its own.

babys heartbeat starts to slow down

(DD1) That there might be simple things that you could do to help...DD1's heart beat went back to normal when I was finally 'allowed' to stand up, what the procedure is when a baby is in danger...

Getting a bit repetitive there, but what I mostly mean is that the better your information the more choices you have. If you make an informed choice then you should hopefully avoid the feeling that birth was something that was 'done to' you. Rather, regardless of hippy home birth/hospital birth/forceps/c-section you should feel that it was something that you took part in and that you made the best decisions you could for yourself and your baby.

scariest experience of my life - wouldn't do it again not for anything in the world, hated both experiences, hated the birth, didn't like the babies v. much either - in fact its a wonder i ever had children

I had an uncomplicated, 12-hour birth with no pain relief or stitches, and I feel very happy and lucky it turned out this way. It did bloody hurt though and was exhausting. I didn't actually think I was going to die but I did think "I'm never bloody doing this again" (Obv changed mind as am 14 weeks pregnant!) and I did retch a lot from the pain and did think my head was going to actually spin around in transition (though it was kind of nice and spacey, like being on drugs). But I think of it as a very positive experience and would consider myself very lucky to have the same experience again. I am scared of having complications as I can't imagine having to endure more pain than I did in my first birth (gulp!)

I think the level of pain each woman feels during childbirth is not due to just one factor, but due to a whole combination of factors, already mentioned here:

If you have contractions for days, or your contractions are really long and close together, or the baby gets stuck, or there are other complications, it's obviously going to be more painful

• pain thresholds
• fear and confidence
• your personal perception of childbirth and pain
• the support of those around you
• personality