to think that if you had a good birth experience with your dc's you should recognise that not everyone is that lucky?

[queenoftheslatterns]

and obviously vice versa.

on FB last night one of my friends (obviously watching one born every minute - ive sky+'d it to watch later) stated that the women were making a fuss, she didnt moan at all, giving birth is easy and natural.

on here too, there were a few threads calling the women wimps etc. we all know that not everyone has a great time of it. a lot of women need medical intervention and giving birth is still quite a risky thing for many women. yes, its great that some women have "soap labours" a bit of straining and baby's out, but for a lot of women labour is scary, exhausting and very, very hard work.

morloth

I really don't recognise this phenomenon of criticism of women who've had positive birth experiences. When I've been in the way of wanting to hear stories about births (usually when waiting patiently and pointlessly to go into labour myself) all I've ever experienced is people being very supportive of other women, regardless of the particulars of the birth story.

My impression from MN has always been that women are rooting for each other to have a good birth experience and are there to hold their hands if things go awry.

would also like to say that i could have been considered to have "made a meal of it" only got to 2cm, was having contractions for 3 days and passed out with the pain and exhaustion before they decided to give me a crash cs. ds was lodged (literally) in my pelvis and had a head circumfrance of a 5 week old.

Are there really women who would prefer to undergo major abdominal surgery than have an uncomplicated labour?

I hear this loud and clear, and on paper it makes sense. BUT episitiotomy stitches (or from a natural tear) are pretty hardcore too. I was in so much pain, plus the birth trauma. Epi stitches fucking kill, often dont heal, and they impair mobility too as you cant walk/sit easily.

Gosh, my Mum is here helping me out whilst I recover, but it really breaks my heart not to be able to pick up DD1 at the moment. I can't relate to choosing this at all, although whatever works for her.

Whoops, sorrry queenoftheslatterns, didn't see you said in your OP you'd not watched . Basically, it is quite clearly TV edited to pull your sympathies in particular directions.

I totally agree about different experiences - plus the fact that some people feel better for screaming blue murder and others feel better for gritting their teeth silently!

porcamiseria

sorry, did not mean to say cs is the worst outcome. there are definitely people who've had far worse experiences than I've had.

I just can't imagine swapping a cs for a "lovely water birth". The thing is that you never know in advance that you'll get your lovely water birth. But if you knew for sure that you'd have a nice, uncomplicated labour I don't think many women would opt for CS instead.

I think the kids come snuggle skidoodle, what is really funny with this friend and I is that once she is recovered she is much more of a hippy freak earth mother than I am.

Different strokes etc. I guess the thing that she likes best about an elective c-section (and she is on her 4th) is that she can book it in and know exactly when things are going to happen, put aside those 6 weeks etc.

I think women are too hard on themselves and on each other. Do whatever works and let it go.

Good post porcamiseria.

I had an elcs and it was great- no way would I have swapped it for a straightforward water birth, skidoodle. Not a chance.

Mine is a positive birth experience- yet I've a feeling it's not the positve birth experience story anyone's after...

I think it's important to get away from the idea that a 'positive' birth experience equates with pain free, or with being one of those incredibly lucky women who just don't experience much pain in labour (apparently they do exist!!)

When people believe that good = pain-free, and bad = painful, I think it's a recipe for often not feeling good about the birth you had. I think it's more a case of good = feeling in control and empowered
bad = feeling out of control and disempowered

The level of pain felt does not have to be the deciding fact in whether a woman feels comfortable with her birth and her choices. I can honestly say that my first birth was the most painful thing I;ve ever been through, yet I don't feel it was a 'bad' birth, quite the contrary, I felt very empowered afterwards, and I felt well supported by a wonderful midwife.

I have also experienced a relatively painfree Csection under epidural - I wouldn't say that was 'better' because it was less painful, nor would I say it was 'worse' because I didn't go through a natural labour.

It was different

I had a virtually painfree labour, only felt 4 contractions as painful and that was when I lost control (due to water strangely enough, vile for me in labour).

When you talk to women who have used hypnobirthing, with varying degrees of success as far as pain management goes, the thing that gets brought up again and again is that they felt more in control of the experience, whether they ended up with a totally natural birth or a crash section - because shit happens and you can't control all the variables but you can control yourself and how you feel about it.

Morloth

"Do whatever works and let it go."

But lots of women don't get to do anything that feels like it "works" for them and many are traumatised afterwards and it takes them time to come to terms with it.

Why should they "let it go"? And in fact, how should they, if they don't feel ready to?

Demanding that people let go of something that is important to them is firmly on the spectrum of being hard on other women IMO.

tethersend

"Mine is a positive birth experience- yet I've a feeling it's not the positve birth experience story anyone's after..."

That's definitely not true. I've read tons of positive posts on MN about elective sections before I had my own. People asking for them, people giving them.

My section this time was a positive experience (and last time wasn't too bad either). I just really don't have the patience for the recovery. Which is silly given that all I'm doing all day is sitting under a breastfeeding baby, which would be the same even if the baby had popped out when I sneezed.

Because the person who is hurting is them and the only person who can do anything about it is them.

I had one horrid and one wonderful birth...I would get very cross with someone telling me that the second was down to luck. It was down to knowledge. Obviously there was the element of luck in that I didn't have GD/eclampsia or anything like that, but as far as the actual birth goes, the difference was that I KNEW so much more second time round.

So this is what I tell people when they ask me about my births...that the more information you have the more likely you are to have a better birth experience regardless of what actually happens, ime it was feeling as though I knew so little that I had to do as I was told that made the difference!

I agree with that Druid. That's why I'm a great believer in women finding out as much as they can, thinking about the pros and cons of different types of birth. Yes, there will always be the variables you can't control, but there is a lot you can control, which is, after all, the whole point of having birth plans. Not because it means the the birth is bound to happen exactly as written, but because it means the woman has had a chance to reflect on things like pain relief, water, etc and plan for what she would like to happen if possible.

I also think a good mix of professional advice and also anecdotal advice can help. I'm glad I knew about the pros and cons of different pain relief options from the experts. But probably the most useful piece of advice before I gave birth was from a friend who said 'You'll experience pain like you've never felt before, but you'll get through it and out the other side'. It sounds a bit obvious, but actually I needed to know that, and when I was reaching the point of thinking 'I'm going to die, no one can survive this', I clung onto those words (and the midwife's hand!). Knowing what you're facing can be incredibly empowering.

You can have a dysfunctional, difficult labour and still feel good about your birth 'experience'. I did!

Short, straightforward labour doesn't necessarily = satisfaction with birth experience.

I felt like a super-hero after my last labour, which involved me stalling at 7cm dilatation for well over 12 hours and having to transfer into hospital. Then a pph....

I don't feel I was 'lucky' to have a 'good experience', except insofar as I was 'lucky' to have been able to organise good care for myself, was lucky to have remembered to have surrounded myself with positive people, and was lucky to have prepared myself emotionally for what I suspected (and what was) a very challenging experience.

May I highly recommend a book called "Stand and Deliver"? It's full of so many different birth stories - from home births to EMCS following full medical intervention via inductions.

The thing that I found truly inspiring was that each and every mother interviewed had found something positive about her birth experience, while acknowledging the difficulties and pain. I read on maternity leave with DS1 when scared witless about what labour would be like, and it gave me confidence.

BTW - I'm not the author; nor do I know her!

"I was categorised as high risk, I was browbeaten at every turn. I had done all the preparation possible, I seemed to know more than the people who were supposedly "caring" for me, but they were in a position of power, and I could not get through to them"

Yes - it's very hard isn't it? I had gd and was also 'high risk' because of a previous history of very big babies. I found things became much easier once I accepted people weren't going to approve of what I wanted, and that as long as I accepted responsibility for any poor outcomes they were usually prepared to accomodate me.

CinnabarRed - also like that book. Hence user name!

YANBU - my first labour was very much like that poor girls - intense pain at 2cm after waters had broken. Back to back contractions but was in established labour. I panicked a lot and no one really helped - wasnt quite so vocal or emotional though shall we say .

Second birth was a dream in comparison and I actually enjoyed it (apart from the agony and exhaustion bit). I did tell friends about it but more in an amazed way and wasnt I so lucky way. I would never have put it down to my skill (although did manage to get hang on breathing, relax etc but that only helped in a straightforward relaxed birth).

I've now had both so can vouch that normal labour is painful and exhausting. Normally-progressing labour shouldn't be scary if you're well-informed, more surprising if it's your first one. My scariest birth was the last one and even that didn't seem scary at the time. My least painful birth was that one, the crash c section.

People who give birth easily and with little pain are definitely in the minority and should be jolly glad, not smug, about it.