to say no and leave a "friend" with no money for food

[fernie3]

I say "friend" because she is the mother of one of my daughters friends, I speak to her in the school and I see her when the children play together but I am not about to spend time with her outside of this.

I have only known her since September and I know she struggles alot with her children. I look after all three of them (all under 5) overnight every few weeks so that she can go out. I have no idea of her income or anything apart from that she is single and on benefits - so I assume she is fairly short of money. She does however spend what money she does have on ridiculous things like recently a brand new double pushchair, even though I have just GIVEN her a jane powertwin which was less than a year old. It is now sitting in the hallway of her flat next to the brand new one which seems odd to me.

I dont agree with her lifestyle choices, I dont like the way she lives and have major problems with how she looks after the children (which is why I dont send my children over there) it but I dont say anything because its her business and I really believe that people who need help should be given help which I why I have tried to help her. I offered to look after the youngest baby free so she could apply for a job to help with money but she didnt even want to try.

Now she has just text me asking to borrow money for food. I know she has probably spent it on something ridiculous but I cant bear the thought of her children going hungry again, especially as the younger one is already ill and very very small and has major delays which have been put down to this - he said he wont eat I KNOW he will. I can find the money but it is not a small amount to us and the chances of her paying it back I would be fairly small. I also feel at this point that I have done enough and its her problem.

I really dont know what to do! I want to say no but I dont want to leave her children with nothing.

Definitely agree you should give food, not money. If you can't afford to do this right now, be honest about this with your friend.

I get the impression you are really thinking of the children, and feel a strong connection with them.

You are very kind hearted and what you are doing could mean an awful lot to them. As long as you feel you can do it, without it making you too stressed or out of pockdet, then perhaps you should let your heart rule your head in this case. As you say, you don't have to be close friends with the mother.

It sounds like professionals are already involved with the family, so you are not alone. If you feel they need more help from SS than they are getting, then you'll have to decide what to do next.

At the risk of sounding like a heartless cow - refuse and nip it in the bud.

She sounds like a taker and if you say yes to this she'll ask again.

the onus isnt upon fernie to sort out the family.it is upon the mum to prioritise,adequately feed her children

and what did she do prior to meeting fernie in september?

Id say no and not give anything either and give ss a anon call too.

I had a "friend" like this she was constantly running out of gas/electric/food etc etc. and then asking me for some money for groceries/toilet roll/gas etc she would ball her eyes out about her shitty situation. I had to break ties in the end as she was becoming too needy and manipulative and I couldnt justify lending(giving) her money/food when I knew she was spending at least £20 of her benefits on weed. dont get me wrong, Ive no problems with people having a smoke, but when youve paid all your bills and youve got food in the cuboards, not paying for it first and then hoping someone else will bail you out when you cant feed your child

Again, I would make excuses and decline, she sounds like shes equally manipulative and using you-trust me it will only worse if you give in.

I would have to give food/ money myself - the poor little might is too young to feed himself and she doesn't help that is neglectful. She needs to get her priorities in check - can you discuss this with her?

I think also giving a gift of some food would be better

and not because I have my suspisions

it is easier to gift food parcel than a twenty

plus she will keep aksing to borrow money - but i suspect she is less likely to ask for food parcels

I agree with the kids being Mums responsibility scottishmummy ...problem is fernie 'identifies' with the children, so that's why in this case I'd say donate food.

I also think that the kids Mum (the friend) won't want the food should it be offered and wouldn't ask fernie again. I think Mum actually just wants the money.

In RL my answer would be a no.

if food is offered and she declines how much clearer a message is needed that she is manipulating fernie

i guess we have to wait and see what fernie does,does she offer food or not.

yes fernie does seem to identify with the children and that perhaps that is the emotional hook that the mum uses for leverage

fernie, not my first posting on MN but the first to an AIBU thread. I've read some sad, funny and awful threads in this area and been close to posting so many times but have always been happy to lurk.
HOWEVER, can't help myself now.
YOU are clearly a very nice person - much nicer than i will ever be as i couldn't have a "friend's" 3 children over to stay more than once, let alone every few weeks particularly if she doesn't even try to reciprocate.
A JANE would sell on ebay for loads - i would suggest you ask for it back if she doesn't need it (as she now has a 2nd) and get your family some extra cash by ebaying it (Bugaboos and Janes hold their value along with P&Ts quite well on Ebay).
The face that you have known her only since September and (5 months later) she now has the affront to TEXT you for money frankly astounds me. If you're going to ask / try to borrow money at least have the bloody courtesy to call (that might speak more about society these days however and not so much her!).
DO NOT give money for food - if you feel the need to drop over a lasagne or such like then fair enough - maybe your conscience would take a battering if you didn't (not suggesting it should but you strike me as someone who would worry about it if you did nothing).
SHE sounds bloody awful and as someone else asked previously what was she doing for help / cash before you two met?
As i said, you sound like a much nicer person than i could ever be, and i don't think i'm too bad but do not allow her to take the piss which she has started to do now.

my Mum's sister does this all the time: no money for food, but her sis has several computers, drinks, smokes,plays bingo, but my Mum can't cope with the thought of the children going without food, so spends £s on petrol taking food over. I really don't know what the answer is. If you give anything, give food not money, at least that way you know what it is being spent on. I've suggested to my Mum that she involves social services, if she really thinks the children aren't being well looked after, but know that is also a hard decision to make. Really don't know what to say.

ok - being a bit harsh but the 'friend' has put you in a really difficult situation and i appreciate that you feel torn esp as your dcs are friendly.

i'd be inclined to advise that if you are genuinely concerned about the welfare of the dcs then call SS and tell them what you know (you can report anon if that makes you more comfortable - she doesn't need to find out it was you) - what you tell them may be very helpful if there as sw/hv etc trying to engage with this family - the bit about her asking you for money is the crucial info - there may be just rubbish budgeting skills or there may be a substance misuse problem or similar (i know thats really judgey - i cant help it i'm a sw)

if there is neglect there needs to be intervention - at the very least your friend can be signposted to local agencies. where i live there are 3 or more charities which dispense food parcels to low income people so if thats the problem it can be addressed.

I wouldn't be able to do nothing, you're in an impossible situation and despite it potentially being enabling etc I would feel rotten if I didn't do anything. I just know it would really play on my mind.

Do you have anything in the cupboard that you could give her? Some rice, lentils, peas, tinned tomatoes, pasta, tuna etc? You could probably rustle her up a cheap pasta dish spending less than £2 and maybe get some value bread or cornflakes and some jars for the baby. I think if you did that then you will realise whether or not she is genuinely in need - if she is, she'll be thrilled! If she was just hoping for some extra money then she'll probably be lacking sincerity somewhat.

Are SS already involved?

given that statutory agencies are involved,hopefully visits and observations will pick up on anything untoward

I agree with sungirltan. No issue with helping people who are a bit short onthe odd occasion, but if it is becoming a regular thing, you need to involve those who are qualified to help. Hope someone who knows what the right thing to do it reads this.

I agree with all the other posters on here.

The woman sounds pretty awful! And is totally taking advantage of your kind nature! (And probably having a good laugh at your expense behind your back!)

IMO - you simply cannot give her the money. It sounds as though there is a much bigger problem here and by giving money, you will (as someone else has said) simply become an enabler and reinforce her behaviour.

She and her kids need to get on the radar of the agencies whose job it is to help in these instances. So that these kids get the help they need longer term. If you want to help the kids, you have to look at the bigger picture.

Please do not waste any time and energy feeling guilty.

well thanks for all the replies, I have called her and told her that I cant lend her any money as I just don't have it but that I do have meat and milk etc in the freezer if she wants it. She didn't seem all that keen so I think it shows that food probably isn't her main concern!.

Earlybird about the childrens father I have no idea who it is and neither do the children. I have been told they all have the same father but I dont know anything about him having said that I tend not to ask. I know she has a sister but again I dont know her and know nothing about her.

I have a feeling that social services WILL be getting involved if they are not already, we took the younger child up to the hospital a couple of months ago one night as he was very unwell (he ended up being in for three days) and since then she has been having alot more appointments and questions asked, I know a HV recently visited her flat and I am sure they will have to take action based on her home if nothing else. I dont know any details just what she has let on about so there is probably more to it than this. I think this is one of those cases where I just need to let other people sort it out - I wish I could help the children but I really cant so that will have to be it.

I have not spoken to the school about it as I wouldnt really know what to say to be honest!

I agree with tigermoth.
While "friend" is taking the piss, I think it would a very kind/generous thing to take some food round for the children.
Even if HVs and SS are involved it doesn't mean that the kids are being fed properly or will do for some time.

I think sometimes you just have to trust your heart and follow your instincts, it sounds like the mother isnt doing a good job of looking our for her DCs.

I also agree that you could ask for your pram back since she isnt using it, and put it on ebay, why waste a decent pram on her hallway! It might make you feel a bit better about things too, perhaps redressing the balance a bit?

time to now prioritsie yourself,your family

cant save everyone unfortunately

i meant to say before you could talk to someone at the school. i think most schools have a parent teacher liason person who you cna talk to in confidence who could either make a report on your behalf or pass it on to the nominated child protection staff member.

i think you ought to tell ss/hv about the not helping the dc to eat. again being terribly judgey here but when she is in front of profs she may well behave appropriately feeding wise and let the problem go undetected. there will be duty sw around now if you call advice and assessment - number in the phone book or local council site.

She's a freeloader. I agree with 14hrstillbedtime - invent something and get her off your back. People who are really in need are rarely as crass or obvious as her and are eager to offer something in return for help. She is taking advantage of your lovely nature and you deserve better than that -GET RID!

Fernie - you're a lovely thoughtful person

yes fernie hasd been v kind

Hope I haven't missed anything not reading the whole thread.

My neighbour used to be always at the door asking for ten to forty quid here or there because her DIL was any minute going to give birth to an early baby which wouldn't survive and she needed to feed the other kids while their mother sorted out the poor dead baby

Despicable woman. I lent her money once or twice and haven't had it back a year on.

She has been known to knock at other houses begging for fags because she has cancer

I haven't read through the whole thread but i would say (and this may sound harsh) but not to give her anything. If you give her money for food, she may just spend her benefits on whatever and think I'll go back to fernie for food.

If she is on benefits she can maybe get a social loan or look at charities. Maybe she needs to go and see if she can get more help with benefits, but if you enable her (after only knowing her like 6 months) she'll just keep coming back [worst case scenario]

I think you should get in touch with the social services, and quick, it is obvious that she needs outside support and help from professional people and it's not fair that you should be providing it. Her children are struggling and you've already seen how her lifestyle choices are conflicting with the well-being of her children's upbrining. You have a duty to alert the professionals- it is their responsibility not yours. She will only take advantage of you and expect more and more from you.