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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 13 14

Original poster

to wonder why a midwife would offer a woman, labouring beautifully in a pool, an epidural?

338 replies

FeckinFurious · 09/02/2010 17:08

I have namechanged as I'm not sure if this is a bit obvious and I need to ensure confidentiality.

But...

I am utterly fuming.

Scenario.

Woman. Baby no 1. Labouring spontaneously in hospital, in a birth pool.

Long and painful but baby fine. Mum tired but coping, using entonox.

Midwife 1 goes off for lunch. Midwife 2 takes over.

By the time midwife 1 comes back from lunch midwife 2 has suggested an epidural to knackered, labouring woman who accepts.

within haf an hour epidural is sited and hormone drip going.

Woman is now being monitored continuously in bed.

Please comment.

OP posts:

MorrisZapp · 09/02/2010 17:19

Also lol at the idea that the following concept might be unique enough to identify the participants: First time mother says she doesn't want pain relief. Labour starts and she changes her mind.

nellie12 · 09/02/2010 17:20

Sorry ff but the mw who came in may have looked at things with the benefit of a fresh pair of eyes and thought it worth considering.
the mother obviously thought so too.

ff you need to look up the legality of consent, whilst you ma wonder about the capability of someone in deep labour to make that decision her consent is still valid.

People change their minds all the time when having treatment and that needs to be respected. Most of the time they didn't fully appreciate the ramifications(ie. discomfort /pain) that might be involved.

you did your best dont worry about it.

Mimile · 09/02/2010 17:20

I was grateful to be reminded my options when having DD and did not feel unsupported because MW offered drugs/complementary stuff/else. I would much rather have this than the reverse (which would have been my personal nightmare).
I think it is easy to get convinced to go for natural birth as a first timer, but realise that it was all too idealistic when in the thick of it - being reminded of options is great. There is no such thing as a birth set in stone and some MW can be quite unhelpful by wanting "to support" by not offering alternatives / options

amber1979 · 09/02/2010 17:20

FeckinFurious is Midwife number 1, perhaps?

LibrasBiscuitsOfFortune · 09/02/2010 17:21

I presume lunch is a 45-60minute break, in labour that's a long time, the contractions could have got more painful, the woman in the pool might have just had enough. I think you should take your judgey mcjudgey hat off, the woman in labour didn't get to take a lunch break....

ruddynorah · 09/02/2010 17:21

i would imagine the OP is a doula, a long standing poster on here.

eggontoast · 09/02/2010 17:22

feckin - you say she was in advanced labour and not able to make informed choice - I think the pain she was in made the choice clear for her. How long did she labour post epidural?

The most excruciating part of labour is the 10 or 15 mins before pushing starts. If say, she was desperate for pain relief 2 hours before pushing starts, it would be very difficult for her to manage without it.

standandeliver · 09/02/2010 17:22

I'm with ya OP.

Probably 90% of mums who are 'labouring beautifully' would consider an epidural if it was offered at the 'right' time (ie, when they're feeling tired and a bit demoralised, or during transition). I would also be at a midwife suggesting it if a mum looked to me like she was coping and making progress. I 'd be asking what the midwife's motives were.

I've had two colossally long labours myself. First labour I was offered an epidural and accepted it. I think knowing that the midwife thought I 'needed' it made me feel as though I wasn't coping. Third labour was also colossally long. Longer actually. I also became very demoralised during the labour. Very weepy, and saying 'I can't cope' and 'it's all going wrong'! That time fortunately the midwife knew I had VERY strong feelings about not wanting an epidural. I'd asked her not to offer me one but that I'd request it if I needed it. Very very glad to have avoided an epidural with that birth.

Did your mum have a birth plan? Had she expressed any thoughts on what she wanted or didn't want for her birth?

EleanorBuntingCupcake · 09/02/2010 17:22

why all the bloody mystery and stealth?

Original poster

FeckinFurious · 09/02/2010 17:24

OK. am perhaps being mcjudgy but it should have been different.

bowing out.

OP posts:

rastababi · 09/02/2010 17:24

Agree with standandeliver.

BrahmsThirdRacket · 09/02/2010 17:25

Get over it.

Original poster

FeckinFurious · 09/02/2010 17:25

will be back later but it is interesting to see your views.

OP posts:

eggontoast · 09/02/2010 17:27

I understand the point made by standanddeliver - but, the op does not make enough of the background clear to be able to see if this is the case.

RockinSockBunnies · 09/02/2010 17:27

Well, when I had DD I had been adamant that I didn't want any intervention. However, after over 24 hours in labour and excrutiating pain, I changed my mind and had an epidural which was bliss.

Mind you, the midwives, to their credit, didn't offer and did ask me if I was sure, pointing out that epidurals carried a higher risk of interventions etc.

So, if midwife offered or pressurised the woman to have epidural then clearly that's not good. But otherwise, I'm not sure what the problem is?

Sassybeast · 09/02/2010 17:27

I think the clue is in 'long and painful'

So disgruntled doula ? Or student midwife who knows it all ?

Lulumama · 09/02/2010 17:27

i have been in similar scenarios as a doula

if a mother is offered an epidural if that is contrary to her birth preferences, i will gently reminde her of her birth prferences, if she however wants to cahnge her mind and go for the epidural, thn that is her choice and not my place ot judge her for accepting it

she might have felt desperate for an epidural or more pain relief, but unable to ask for it for all sors of reasons

mothers might write their brth preferences, but when push comes to shove, they can ask for and accpet whatever they want

as a doula, it is my role to inform a woman BEFORE labour of her options re pain relief,so that in the throes of it, if she cahnges her mind and wants an epidural etc, she is still making as informed a decision as possible

it is not lije getting an epid. is a snap decision, you have to wait for the aneasthatist, get it sited and set up, it is not like there is no opportunity to say , iv;ve ahcnage my mind

if she was knackered, she might have been delighted to have the epdirual

not our place to judge/guilt trip the labouring mother or overrule the medical staff

sometimes tyou have to suck it up

BTW, is the mother happy? comfortable? Progressing?

belgo · 09/02/2010 17:28

It's difficult to say but a labouring woman can always ask for an epidural, she knows this is a possibility and she can be relied upon to ask for an epidural if she feels she needs it.

If however you suggest to a woman in advanced labour that she can have an epidural, I think that woman will nearly always say yes, and that can lead in some cases to a cascade of inventions that could have been avoided.

standandeliver · 09/02/2010 17:28

Sorry - want to add, that there are some midwives (and birth partners) who are just very crap at dealing with women who are needing a lot of emotional and physical support during a very intense labour. To these people epidurals are a godsend. I'm sure it regularly happens that women are subtly or less subtly sometimes encouraged to consider regional analgesia by those who are exhausted by trying to meet their needs in labour.

Actually I remember supporting a mum in labour once - she was being very needy and we were all knackered. Her DH suggested pethidine and you could feel everyone in the room thinking - oh go on, have some and give us all a break...... Sure enough she had it, had a snooze and then woke up to push baby out. Baby didn't feed though after birth. Maybe it was right for her. Maybe not. I would have felt more comfortable in myself thinking that she had instigated the request.

MorrisZapp · 09/02/2010 17:29

Why do we all have to give views when you have given us feck all?

Have you any idea how the conversation went that resulted in the pain relief?

Or are you hoping that by giving the minimal amount of info you can, you can get the most sympathy for your position?

What was the woman's view after it was all done and dusted?

EleanorBuntingCupcake · 09/02/2010 17:30

v.good name standanddeliver

Lulumama · 09/02/2010 17:31

wihtout knmowing how advamced the labour is etc, it is impossible to say

but at the end of the day, we need to let labouring mothers make their own informed choices and that incliudes changiung their minds about pain relief

i would never ever want to let a woman feel bad for asking for more pain releif than she thought she might want before the labour

Morloth · 09/02/2010 17:31

Student midwives have to keep their traps shut don't they? We were asked to consider allowing them about when I did a tour of the maternity ward. Doesn't bother me but I really don't need some 12 year old telling me how I "should" be doing things.

RollBaubleUnderTree · 09/02/2010 17:31

I know what you mean OP.

The woman did not ask for it, it was offered. When an epidural is offered a woman who is labouring may think 'shit she thinks I am not coping/won't cope. This is obviously going to get loads worse if she is offering'.

Epidurals and hormone drips do have consequences for the labour, the woman and sometimes the baby. It's not like she was offering a magic spell to take the pain away with no side effects.

I would also question the motivation. If it happened in my local hospital I would assume this midwife did not want to deliver this baby in the water and that she wanted to set the agenda for the labour.

diddl · 09/02/2010 17:33

When midwife 1 came back,why didn´t she check that the "beautifully, painfully labouring" woman really did want the epidural?

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