Thrad about a thread and happy todeclare it: 'everyone knows being welfare dependent is morally wrong'. No it'snot, only if you choose that. Otherwise it is luck dependent and

[BethNoireNewNameForPeachy]

luck can't make you morally wrong. It just is.

If your employer goes under, you are not morally wronng.

If your pension plan colapses three years before you retire, you are not morally wrong.

If you are sick,or a carer, or any of a lot of other things- you are not morally wrong.

Passing random judgements in a way that can hurt people is, however, IMO morally wromng.

Please someone tell me why people don't just get that?

And no I don'tcare I broke MN tradition by starting a thread about a thread, first I remember breaking in nigh on a decade and am angry. Arrrrghhhhhhh.

If this gets deleted, so be it.

I found the thread

It was only that one person on the last page who said it was morally wrong, and they didnt post anything else, maybe they just wanted a reaction!

I've been here almost ten years my love,Oh I can stand the heat,I don't have to likeit though.

yes was one poster on that thread, it was the quote specifically- did try to make that clear, has been lots ofs imilar type things lately though. there's something similar to this thread running in SN atm but please don'tpost debate on it- SN isn't made for that, AIBU is.

Sadly,you can't hide threads once you have posted and if you don'tpost you can't blamepeoplefor not knwoing other peoples situations. I'vlearnedlots on here about diferent things,and I think that'swhat MN does well- ag limpse into other peoples lifestyles and realities.I wish there was a way to post and hide tbh,absolutely.

I think its sometimes hard to critise benefit thieves or scroungers, without upsetting the many genuine benefit claimants.

I am happy for my taxes to pay for benefits, if DP left me tomorrow I would be on benefits for sure, my mum was a single mum in the 80s, even though I was a kid I was very aware of the...erm cant think of the right phrase...hatred?! directed towards her and us.

I think people need to understand that it not one homogenous group. Yes, mot people on benefits are honest, claim appropriately and do not cheat. But its just not true to say that there aren't people who take the piss, who lie and steal and live off others. I don't get why criticiseing them would bother you if you're not one of them?

Poo I am not denying that at all

Criticisng them doesn't bother me per se, its only that every time there is a thread about carers or similarsomeone comeson and says 'yeah but its the thieves that get me...'and its as if theyca n'tsee claimant without seeing fruadter and a musgshot off some DWP advert.

Those of us who aren't here by choice shouldn't have to be even associated with the thieves in society. It'sthat automaticlinkage, the fact that many similar threads turn into 'comapre the fruaster story' threadsthat bother me I guess, certainly not the actual criticism of fraud.

there's a very definite timeand place for that,just not sure my threads are always it.

all threads on mn about benefits ened up the same, the silly "oh I know someone with a plasma tv, and she doesn't work" ditto th constant jealousy of anyone who get s the massive(pmsl) carers allowance, or DLA.

benefit fraud costs the government over £1 billion per year.

Not just the odd fraudster really then, must be quite widespread.

"Sadly,you can't hide threads once you have posted"

yes you can - I noticed a week or so back that threads I've hidden no longer appear in "threads I'm on"

Luckily we dont all judge quality of life by a plasma TV!

Its got to be LCD everytime

and the parent carers SAVE the government Billons every year.

that's ok "informal" carers saved the government £76billion a year.

they are not fraudsters though are they? Parent carers?

I am talking about fraud.

Exactly SGC, my CA is £53. care for one child with sn (I have two) over the £500 pw limit: TCs same barring pennies as before Dh was redundant (comesfrom slightly different pots now- he's PT so some CTC and some WTC whereas was all from one before)

I want to see the crimninals locked up for fraudulent claims but I am as powerless to do anything about them as anyone else posting here, so I don't understand why peoplewith a need to debate that can't start aa thread about that. It does imply I am being tarred with the same brush, which is grossly unfair.

I am not seeing any mroe of that money than anyone else who isn't acting illegally.

It's not my fault that they do as they do.

I am as anti it as anyone.

the "cost" of fraud isn't just how much is claimed fraudulently - it will also include the cost of catching those people, and in very serious cases taking them to court.

And can't find the figures off hand - but I believe the tax lost from the super-rich, and big businesses using tax loopholes FAR exceeds £1billion.

it is stilll a billion pounds being used up for nothing though. Whether it is from the fraudsters or the costs incurred in catching them and taking them to court etc.

That money would be better spent elsewhere no?

I don't think anyone is arguing that fraud is morally justifiable dfs.

I feel very ashamed I'm living off state money. My H left me 38 weeks pg with dc4, all 7 and under. I've never been on benefits before and I hate it.

the thread bethnoir was talking about was started by me.

i am currently awaiting with the great help from kind MNers a reply from dwp about the esa allowance and what else i may be entitled for what i hope will be the short term.

for the like of people that are carers and people with long term illness, disabilitys who have to live on benefits i am sorry that my thread ended up with comments as it did.

Up to £10.5bn in benefits went unclaimed in 2007-8.

dfs I dont even understand why yopu felt you needed tomake that comment? What on earth am I supposed to reply? But if you have a magic solution that enables that to be addressed without cutting welfare for those in need i think there may be a job form you in parliament. Otherwise the only solution to entirely eradicate that is to stopwelfare, is that what you want?Becuase otherwise- huh?

OP, there is nothing morally wrong with claiming benefits as a carer of a child/children with health problems/disabilities. Or temp claiming after losing a job.

There are of course situations where its morally wrong to claim benefits - like having children whilst on benefits knowing you cant support them, long term JSA because it pays more or the person is fussy re jobs, lone parents with children over 1 (mat leave is only a year so IS should be the same as this) however of course people will claim these whilst over government lets them.

tjack don't sweat it, its a typicalMN benefits thread gone bad.

On a good day I think 'heck tehre are alot of peoplefinding life tough in very hard financialtimesand just venting'; on a bad day (today) I think wankers.

Sccorps you know exactly what I think don't you?

The morally defunct person in your equation is your XH. Knwoing as much as I do WRT to your situation, it is not even in question. If someone leaves you when you come homefrom delivering your child then what on earth can you do?