to never go abroad on holiday again until the kids have left home...

[liath]

Have been out of the UK 3 times since having the dcs and even when it's gone relatively well there has been the unpleasantness of flying with small kids, endless queues, dodgy weather etc. We've had endless delays, missed flights, gastroenteritis & broken bones. I get back more knackered than before I left.

AIBU to want to spend every holiday between now and my youngest's 18th birthday at bloody Centre Parcs - at least I know the chocolate ice cream there is good.

Centerparcs is not THAT bad - we paid £299 for a long weekend last year i.e. over four days

It's easy to slag off Centerparcs but I guess anyone who does so hasn't attended other UK holiday camps

Believe me, it's worth the little extra to avoid the toxic swamps of elastoplasts and shit-covered changing rooms

Riven

I did an educational cruise when I was about 11 but that was the only time before I was 20.

We did go on holiday once when I was about 6. My mum and dad fitted all of us - 2 adults and 8 children aged from 5 to 15 - in a Hillman Avenger and we went to Ireland on the ferry. Can you imagine the squish

Bumperlicious,

the OP didn't mention any financial/health/family issues with taking a holiday abroad, although I think any holiday or long term travel can be challenging with children, home or abroad.

And yes there's a difference between being able to afford it or not. If you have a big local library with toys and story time lots of fun to be had and things to be learned and you NEVR take your toddler because you can't be bothered, then you're depriving them. If you NEVER cook healthy meals despite living in a western country and having some sort of income that allows to buy food, but instead your kids live on cheetos and cola because you can't be bothered, then you're depriving themIf you have a big garden but it's a mess and your children can never play in it because you can't be bothered to clean it up, then you're depriving them.

So depriving your children has to do with the things that you are able to offer them but choose not to.

I am a very experienced traveller, both as my able-bodied younger self and as disabled with children. To me travelling is an absolute priority in life and I swore to never allow my disability to get between it and me. I'll never exactly climb Everest, but there's a magnitude of things I can do.

I can assure you, I don't feel superior/smug or whatever you want to call me about it. I'm also a very experienced chicken keeper but if I gave anyone advice about that they wouldn't jumb on me for "smugness".

I assumed the OP has her way and that's why I thought she should know from someone who does this a lot tht it CAN be fun for all the family and she shouldn't stop due to a bad experience!

I meant to say that I know not everybody feels as strongly about travelling as I do, but that's a personality thing I guess.

We go on the sun holidays, with Haven a few times a year

Reason being we booked with Haven and it cost us £390 for the week in seton sands and again (same price) in Devon cliffs.

Enjoyed them thoroughly, we go with friends and normally do all the children's activities during the day and on the night when children are in bed, me "us" and friends will cook and relax with bottle of wine etc...

We went with another bunch of friends who booked through the sun paper and we got the exact same holiday for £90 in seton sands again.

This year we are going to Haggerston castle, Cala gran, and lakeland. all for less than one holiday if we go direct .

Also going to Turkey this year also, I dont find travelling stressful with children/babies tbh. We take one suitcase for us all, and the pushchair.

At the end of the day you have the holiday that suits you best on the budget you have got and what suits one family doesn't necessarily suit another.

My BIL and his family rave about the cruise they went on the other year with their kids and can't wait to do another. All our holidays involve getting on the walking boots as often as possible, preferably with the aim of finding a piece of Tupperware under a bush (geocaching reference). They probably think we are completely mad and we can't stand the idea of being confined to a big boat with other people on it. Each to their own!

I'd like to point out that nobody who is pro travel abroad has mentioned the word 'deprived'. That word has only been used by people who want to make it clear they aren't depriving their children by not going abroad...

bumperlicious - I personally hate the way that people who are "braver/richer/more organised/more laid back" than others get shouted down purely because of that (why exactly is it a bad thing that i am organised and laid back enough to manage a holiday with a toddler?) and then have words like "deprived" put in their mouths!

I am pretty certain I am one of the people you are talking about, but I never said that my DS will have a richer and superior life because of the travel we do. I said that it was such a wonderful experience for me that I want to offer that to my children and personally find it sad that if people who are in the position to do so choose not to. But that's just my personal opinion - I never used words like deprived or superior. I'm completely with smackedetal - travel is very important to me and i don't quite understand why it isn't to people who can afford to do it but don't. But each to their own.

FWIW, my children will be brought up not to look down on people who don't go on 3 or 4 holidays just as they will be brought up not to be envious of people who have more material possessions in the house because their families chose something different to spend any disposable income on. Envying people for what they have and letting that eat you up is as bad as looking down on people for something they don't have. Neither is a trait I particularly want my children growing up with.

I have 2 DCs, 3 and 17m, and we've been all over with them, both in this country and abroad. TBH the long-haul flights have been no where near as stressful as the long drive to Devon with DD, but even so we wouldn't let that stop us going, we'd just plan things slightly differently to make it easier.

So far with one or both kids we've been to Egypt, Edinburgh, Loch Lomond, Florence, Barcelona, Marbella, San Francisco, Edinburgh again, Kos, Tuscany, Devon, Wales, Dorset, Languedoc, New York & Bermuda. Loved every minute of our holidays.

Off to Provence and Edinburgh this summer and possibly Devon and Rome and can't wait.

megonthemoon - I think its the wording you are using perhaps. Whilst you don't say "deprived", saying that you think its "sad" doesn't come across in an especially benign way either.

As you say, you don't quite understand why people that can afford to do it don't, and I guess that's what this thread is good for, as many of the posters on here are trying to explain why they don't.

It just depends doesnt it - we never went abroad when ds was a toddler/baby because he was quite demanding and cried. a lot.

He has however turned into a really adaptable boy and so have taken him to California at the age of 4 with no probs.

dd was a really laidback baby and so have taken her abroad quite a lot - though not long haul - I wouldnt do that with a dc before they can watch tv for hours on end iyswim.

I think its all about planning down to the last detail and a hefty dollop of luck.

Saying all that I am taking dd (21months) on a short haul flight over half term for the first time without being able to bf her - am not sure how well thats going to go...

taffetacat - yes i agree probably the word 'sad' wasn't the wisest but i'm not sure what else to use as i love travelling so much and see so many benefits in it for children that i do personally find it a bit sad when people who could go on different holidays with their kids and give them different experiences choose to do the same old thing year in year out. so in a way it's not so much abroad vs not, it's about not using holidays to give different experiences. so people who go to different parts of the UK, camp one year, stay in a hotel the next, go walking in hills one year, stay on beach the next are giving their kids different experiences, which might help their kids find different things in life that they want to do. but going to centerparcs and eating the same chocolate ice cream (even if it is delicious ) year in year out isn't really helping to open kids up to different experiences. But that is all IMHO. if you can come up with a different word than sad for me that is less offensive to other people, then i would be happy to use it

but i still do resent being told that i'm being superior just because i'm more organised or laid back or braver about this - none of which is inherently a bad thing, surely? i'm not more organised/laidback/braver about other things in life - but i don't resent people who are.

and richer? well i can afford holidays abroad so i guess i am richer than some on the board, but i can't do anything about that. and as the OP never raised money as an issue (centerparcs is not cheap!), so i was responding assuming it wasn't an issue for her. But sorry if that has upset people for who it is - not my intention.

I don't have children but I'd still rather stay in England and my friends are that I won't get a passport.

meg - I guess what riles me personally is someone passing judgment on someone else's style of parenting. You think its important to give different experiences to your children through the medium of travel. Some other parents don't value this as much as you.

Neither is right or wrong. Attaching values to other people's priorities can be very unfair unless you know all the background, which isn't possible on here.

I think that is a well written post Meg, I agree with you totally. As everyone says it's a matter of choice, neither is right or wrong. For us ,travel is our sanity, and really helps us as a family. It is also marvellous to see ds with cerebral palsy relaxing a bit in the sun.

Center Parcs - overpriced without doubt outside of term times, can't bear them! but then i did used to work for them at Head office and heard/saw some stories i can tell you

I´ve travelled A LOT with under-fives.

Most of it is not much fun. They have been ill most of the time or refused to eat for weeks. You spend a fortune only to arrive home a nervous wreck.

The cheapest most simple holidays have been the best funnily enough. The most important thing is not to sleep in the same room as your children imo, also that there is a good playground and/or beach/sandpit nearby. You can just about get away with doing boring stuff in the afternoon if they know they can have their fun the rest of the time.

As a child I never went on holiday, ever, neither home nor abroad. I think this led me to travel extensively as an adult. definitely didn´t suffer for it or feel deprived. Certainly very young children don´t get anything much out of foreign holidays that they couldn´t get at home.

OP, when your kids are older and can express a wish, then I would think again about your holiday plans, maybe not before then ; )

Well...

we took ds to France to stay in a house with pool when he was 4mths. It was easy peasy and we loved it.

We did cornwall the following year in a holiday house with 16mo ds, 8wk old dd, 3mo dniece. It was fab.

We did Morzine- driving and doing overnight hull-zebrugge ferry the next year with 2yo ds, 1yo dd, 14mo dneice. Again it was great.

The next year we did Croatia , cheap flights, in a mobile home with ds 3, dd1 2 and dd2 4mths. They loved it.

Last year we did all caravanning hols in the UK. We all loved that too.

This year my FIL has booked luxury villas in Brittany for us all (PIL and their 3 dc's families).

Basically holidays with young dc's are never going to be totally stress free and easy as they take a lot of work but you can still enjoy yourself!

What bugs me about family holidays is how little the children seem to remember. All that effort, and they remember so little (DD 19, DS, 16). Or they remember the bad stuff - the leaky roof in Corsica, the epic ferry sickness going to Brittany, the very very very hot day at Gardaland themepark (Italy, August - I know) when we simply gave up on the queues and drove three hours back to our mountain retreat. We now refer to it as Crapaland..

No mention of the gorgeous beaches, fab meals, sun, sea, sand blah blah. It's gone, all gone - we may as well have stayed at home .

I wasn't getting at anyone in particular, just the general tone from some posters and there was definitely a post about travelling broadening the mind more than not travelling with the implication that to not travel makes one less worldly, but I can't remember who said it. And 'pleas' to take your kids travelling...

People just value different things. I personally would love to travel more, but even if I had the money I'm still not sure I would be inclined to as I know I am the sort of person to build something up then be disappointed if it doesn't meet my expectations, and I know any holiday with a 2 year old would not meet my expectations for a relaxing time. And relaxing is what I prioritise in a holiday now I am constantly running around with a toddler and barely holding down a nearly full time job.

Riven I know it's not my place to comment but have you looked at the Calvert Trust for holidays for your DD. I don't know if it would be suitable for her or not. It's just when I worked with young people with Physical disabilites and/or Learning disabilites the CT was highly praised for the activities and holidays they do. Just a thought.

interesting thread. personaly i'm in the traveller camp, as it were.( been to Zimbabwe, Egypt, Australia and more) however I don't agree with meg finding it "a bit sad when people who could go on different holidays with their kids and give them different experiences choose to do the same old thing year in year out." and saying its's a shame not to use holidays to give broader experiences.

I don't agree on 2 counts - firstly, although as adults some of us find it odd, there can be great value in doing the same thing year in year out. it has great potential to create a stable basis from which kids start to explore, it can sow a seed of real love for a particular place, it can act as a thread of family memories in the bigger patchwork, some families carry on doing it when the "kids" are grown up.

secondly holidays/travel are just one small way to give your children different experiences. there are lots and lots of other things you can do.

DS, 3, remembers lots from our main holiday last year and talks about it quite a bit.

We were away for a month and started out in a villa in Languedoc with four mates and their children - lots of swimming in our pool and days at the beach is what DS talks about most here.

Then we flew to New York, where DH and I got married. DS talks about the green lady (SOL), getting married, meeting Spiderman in Toys R Us and a few other things.

We then went onto Bermuda for a friend's wedding. DS was a page boy and he talks about this, about looking after the other page boy who was younger than him, the bridesmaids, the boat trip we went on into the Bermuda triangle where we swam to a sand island and saw a jelly fish in the sea.

It was a wonderful trip. Some things were difficult but we worked around them and the experiences DS (and we) has extracted from the trip were well worth it.

I totally understand that for some people it's more hassle than it's worth and I respect that but for us all of our trips have been a wonderful experience and any hassle has been incidental.

And I'm definitely not discounting any holidays in the UK. I love this country and we always have a fab time wherever we are.

oh we really love going abroad where it's nice and sunny and dd can play on the beach and swim in the sea
dd is a good traveller
last time went on holday we had to wake her at 2am to leave for the airport as we where on chepo flights,
we woke her up and she was full of smiles
happy days

Like pagwatch we travel because we like it and DS gets to come along.

He probably won't remember most of it, but I will.