To think that these are NOT dangerous dogs - see pictures please.

[Vallhala]

Please see the pictures on my profile.

The RSPCA recently raided Rosedene, a West Midlands dog pound, claiming animal welfare act infringements. They killed 3 dogs on site, claiming they were unhandleable, and took the other 56. They will not say where those 56 are now or whether all are still alive. Many of us have asked polite but direct questions on the RSPCAs Facebook page. Not only have all of those questions have been deleted, we have all also been barred from posting any more on the RSPCAs F/B pages.

Rosedene was the council pound and inspected by the local council, which had no issue with it. Conditions were far from perfect BUT all the dogs were well cared for and the staff and volunteers worked hard to place dogs in rescues and not to put them to sleep, including the rescue I work most closely with - and we have no complaints about the condition of dogs received from Rosedene. Staff and volunteers at Rosedene are devastated.

In my experience as a rescue worker it is a remarkable pound that allows volunteers in to help dogs - many would have too much to hide to permit it.

These photos are of 2 of the 3 dogs killed by the RSPCA during their raid, taken just a few days before it happened.

DO THESE LOOK LIKE UNHANDLEABLE DOGS TO YOU?

Sorry to have left questions unanswered for so long, it's been a busy day.

The RSPCA informed the local Press that the dogs were PTS because they were "unhandleable".

The dogs at Rosedene are not there forever, it isn't a case of them living in limited space all their lives. Rosedene is a pound with, until this event, a Council contract, which means that it has to accept the county's strays and surrenders. Some dogs would go to independent rescue for rehabilitation and rehomeing (yes, you can rehabilitate after all manner of adverse experiences and conditions, to the poster who doubted it). The first in, when the pound was full and others were waiting at the door, would sadly be the first to be PTS... there was never any chance of a dog being at Rosedene for life. The difference between Rosedene and many pounds is that it actively worked to get dogs into rescue to prevent dogs being PTS as far as possible, and it opened it's doors to volunteers to facilitate that.

Re the conditions at Rosedene as seen in the photos (I haven't been there, some of the people I know and trust have), yes of course the kennels are small. These are standard kennel panels used in pounds and rescue across the country and beyond. No different to Battersea Dogs Homes in size, though its been a while since I went there last so I may be out of date on that.

My own 2 large dogs have the run of a fair sized house and garden. Soo why aren't they utilising that room?

Because they're asleep, something that dogs do such a lot of! And when they're asleep it doesn't matter if the space available to them is the size of a ballroom or the size of a bathroom! What matters is the care they receive - and you can see on the pictures that Rosedene's were walked, socialised and given tlc.

Got to sort the DC out, forgive me if I disappear again, it's mayhem here.

Vallhala - your info re Battersea must be very out of date, because Dh and I haven't been there for 10 years and we didn't see any kennels like Rosedene's at Battersea. DH used to go there regularly as part of his job - he can still describe the exact layout of the entire place.

For clarity - both DH and I remember Battersea as having large walk-in kennels. I showed DH the pic of Rosedene's kennels and he said the cat accommodation at Battersea was better than that.

"they're asleep, something that dogs do such a lot of"

I wish someone would tell mine that!

discussion continues....

urg, discussion continues...

Strange, how it won't post what I am telling it to post

meh

here's the link

www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=13928&post=68840&uid=7231383046#post68840

That was me. I'm not saying they can't be habilitated - just that it's amazing if they can. Those kennels look awful.

I agree that the kennels pictured look very far from ideal. However, I think it is actually debateable whether it is better for a dog to be kept in a larger kennel, but left in there all day and night (as most pounds do) or a small kennel like this and walked every day. Obviously ideally we'd see larger kennels AND walking, but that rarely happens.

Also, don't forget that most pounds will only have the dog for 7-14 days, no longer.

I do find it ridiculous that the RSPCA inspect and pass puppy farms that often use kennels like the ones pictured, but for bitches with litters that will live their for their entire breeding lives, repeatedly having litters and never being walked or often even seeing the light of day, plus living in their own filth, yet they felt it necessary to 'raid' this pound. Hmm... nice press opportunity for them me thinks...

That's true. I keep hearing that people keep pet dogs in crates or cages nowadays.
I didn't realise they're only there 1 or 2 weeks.

People who use crates/cages usually use them for only a short space of time though, not 24/7. They are a 'sfae' space fro the dog to go if it wants to (when it will nto be shut in) or a training aid for toilet training puppies or dogs, but they would only be used for short periods of time for this. You certainly shouldn't be using a crate for prolonged periods of time, although some people use them overnight, when the dog is obviously asleep.

And yes, they are only there for one or two weeks, because if they are not moved n the pound will put them to sleep. They have to, to make room for others. There are approx. 25,000 dogs being PTS each year in England, Wales and Scotland, and believe it or not, plenty of people hand their dogs in to pounds like this one when they can no longer be bothered to keep them.

tbh you sound like you're on a witch hunt and regardless of feelings towards any charity I wouldn't want to be associated with it.

You have no idea what actually went on unless you were there which I presume you weren't.

And fwiw I don't think that an animal's life should be saved at any cost. You can't possibly suggest that it's better for an animal to spend the rest of its life in kennels - it isn't.

You sound lovely

I am sorry If I have upset anyone with my reply to Wannabe, but you know the dog haters on this site in general make my stomach turn.I do not want to steer the thread away from the issue in hand.However, thanfully in rl I do not know anyone as kind spirited as Wannabe.

Actually, Wannabe, why do you think an animals life should not be saved at any cost? What happened to you to make you so bitter? just interested please tell.

I've thought the RSPCA are a bunch of publicity-hungry twonks since they took a policeman to court because he dispatched a cat with a spade who was dying painfully after a RTA.
The PC & passer-by present had tried to contact the RSPCA, but they were told it was not their business. There were no 24hr vets in the area iirc.
So the cat was put out of its misery. And the policeman was hauled through the court system charged with animal cruelty.

darkandstormy, saving an animal's life 'at any cost' could mean keeping it alive in constant pain with no hope of recovery. A friend of my mum's did this with her elderly dog, it was cruel. Wannabe doesn't seem at all bitter to me.

Wannabe - where did I say that it's better for an animal to spend the rest of it's life in kennels?

You know I agree with you on that one.However, I don't think that is what she mean't.It is just such a tragic case thanks to val halla for highlighting it.I dont want to rant anymore.... seems I get far too emotional about these things.It is just I once worked in an Australian animal rescue helping retrain/rehome Australian cattle dogs.Quite often ex farmdogs deemed to "untrainable"etc we had some brilliant re homing stories it is amazing what can be done.

I don't think Wannabe sounded bitter either.

I'm very much an animal lover and have worked in rescue, but I do not believe an animal should be kept alive in order to be kennelled for life, or if its quality of life is very poor due to pain, etc.

It is very easy for humans to put their own needs above that of the animal. Let's face it, 'saving' animals makes people feel good about themselves, and this can often stop them making rational judgements about what is in the animal's best interest.

IMO sometimes it is better to let the animal die painlessly, than condemn it to a very poor quality or painful life.

Call be bitter if you will!

I take exception to wannabe's "tbh you sound like you are on a witch hunt"

No she doesn't. She sounds like a volunteer at a dog pound, who is upset because the RSPCA raided the pound and took the dogs away.

I am fairly shocked by what I have read about the rspca on this thread - I didnt realise so many animals were killed each year. Seems that the supply of cute little kittens and puppies well exceeds the demand for adult dogs and cats.
My parents always get pets from Blue Cross homes, where I believe they dont PTS. Maybe someone knows?

Being lazy and skipping to the end of the thread.

I used to work for the RSPCA. Yep they did put a lot of dogs to sleep. It was a horrible part of the job and I would often argue about it.

But the main reason for PTS [apart from illness] was that there was simply nowhere for these dogs to go.

I was working long before the current staffie trend. When I started it was German Shepherds and Old English Sheep Dogs (Dulux dogs). Then it was Dobermans and then onto Rotties.

There were so many of them and most of them were untrained by the time they were dumpted on us they were unhomable. Great big dogs that were expensive to keep (hence being dumped on us in the first place) and unpredicable due to lack of care and training.

Everyone who worked where I did LOVED animals. But the place was overwhelmed with dogs and there was nowhere for them to go. Most of the nurses had taken on at least two dogs and countless cats. The local rescue agencies were full, Battersea was always up to its limit.

Rotties are lovely dogs but even their biggest fan has got to admit they are time consuming and they can be very dangerous if not cared for properly. They are so big and powerful. I have been trapped in a room with one, it wasnt pleasant!

I will say that IME RSPCA is not too hot on public relations and doesnt like being challenged. So I can understand your frustrations.

They are far from perfect and I found them difficult to work for sometimes. But the dog problem is not their fault. As long as muppets think a dog is a fashion item this is going to happen.

Its very sad.