to think that schools admissions aren't fair

[picklepud]

This is different from saying that I wouldn't go through the system if my child's local school had religious criteria, but I am feeling a bit sad and up in arms for a friend today. Same old story, her local school (primary) is c of E VA. She's not, and chose not to get baptised or go to church twice monthly. So now she will have to drive to her allocated school. So incidentally will many of the people who got in on religious grounds from way away. I really really would go to church for my dd to get into my local school, so I'm not criticising those who do, but I just don't think it should be necessary. Or that religious commitment should give you priority in a state school. And particularly that the vicar should not pretend for a minute that he (as he said in a newspapaper article) say that this is a school in the heart of the community serving all the children of the community.
I know, I know, some people might genuinely change through exposure to the church but I don't think it's the way for a church to expand its membership. sorry. and sorry it's so long.

Thats def what happens at our catholic school too

I think part of the problem is the way each faith school (near us, anyhow) can administer its own admissions policy. This leaves it open to exploitation by a small group of well-meaning people at the school who fail to see the harm they do their school's reputation by "just this one special case".

So we have a catholic primary as our only local faith school, over-subscribed by catholics and their children. But the children of the local C of E vicar get in. The grandchildren of an Anglican bishop who happen to live locally get in. The children of the local Tory candidate, who do not actually live all that locally, get in.

There are other good secular schools nearby. I think if we still lived in inner London, where it was faith school or somewhere awful, I might feel more strongly about this.

no upandrunning, although I agree that I'd like my children to go to a good school, I would also like them to go to one that doesn't give them the impression that it is ok to discriminate on the grounds of religion so I wouldn't want my children to go to most of the faith based schools.

Huge amount of effort from parents and parishoners to help the school and of course part of the bill is footed by the catholic church and those who attend

So if you don't want your children to go there, where's the rub? I don't understand.

but schools ahve to discriminate on the grounds of something otherwise it would be a lottery 0 you cannot use area alone as that is unfair to those living in shit areas, you cannot use siblings alone because this discriminates against single child families - you have to have some criteria fro choosing when something is over subscribed. So how should it be done?

It's not about standards though, upandrunning, it's about distance, friends, neighbours, environment and community.

I said earlier there are good schools around here that DS would probably get into, but none within walking distance.

The faith school is where our neighbours go, where his friends go and it's at the end of our street.

Like ISNT has said, as standards have improved more parents of faith outside of the local area have chosen to send their children to this school.

If my son had been starting a couple of years back, he would have got in no problem, like my neighbours children. It seems some folks' faith gets stronger as results improve. [himm]

ISNT, what about your non faith local schools? I think I would apply to them (assuming you don't want a faith school)and would refuse anything but. If I got a place I didn't want I wouldn't take it.

What do you mean? I pay for your school, you pay for mine -- what's the problem?

You don't pay for the school to be beter. What makes the school better is the parents. You're not paying extra money for the school to be a better school than the one your dc go to. That's all from the parents.

even!

But that's just life, wubbly: they've chosen a faith school, you haven't. Is there not a local non-faith school? It's awful if there isn't.

"better" -- we are not Dutch

Ask yourselves: why do you want to get in so much?

Ask yourselves: what makes the school this way?

upandrunning, you say that as though it's a done deal and nothing can change!

The point of this thread is debating whether or not the current admissions policy is fair or not.

I conclude it is grossly unfair and damages community cohesion and that there must be a better way forward.

There was a poster earlier who said no one would care if they weren't so good.

Not only do I think this is true, I'd go further: I think many who are now complaining about them, have a set of anti-discriminatory beliefs which would lead them to criticise any move to close them down.

Nobody would care, if they didn't want the education they provide. But instead of asking why they do so well, they want to put an end to them.

Strix the local non faith schools are also all oversubscribed, so DD will fail from being out of catchment.

There are some schools which might have places, but they are the worst ones and also some distance away.

My options (and this is personal to my situation):

1. Go to church and cross fingers and get a place at a school in walking distance (assuming we are close enough etc)
2. Don't go to church and put down teh 3 nearest schools (all in walking distance, 2 faith, one community) and hope that that year by some fluke there is a place at one of the schools. Unlikely to the point of impossible, as they are all oversubscribed. I live less than 1/2 a mile from the community school but that has not been close enough for a couple of years and the year DD was born there was a boom in births in this part of the country. ie if I do this I might as well not bother putting the form in
3. Move? Just can't face that for so many reasons, not least that we love where we live (the neighbours the community etc) and are happy and settled
4. Put down the worst schools in the borough, which are also much further away, on the basis that they are the ones most likely to have a place

The only options which make sense really are 1 and 4. And surely only a mad person would actively go for option 4.

So that leaves...

Put it another way: if they weren't faith schools, they probably wouldn't be as good and you probably wouldn't want to go there.

"Ask yourselves: what makes the school this way?"

I'm going to refer you to the Sutton Trust report earlier in the thread, that says faith schools are the most socially selective. They're only letting in the motivated, middle-class kids. Hardly surprising the results are good.

Where I'm from kids go to school based on the area in which they live... seems to work. Just because an area is "shitty" doesn't mean the school has to be

upandrunning, again, no.

I want DD to go to one of the 3 nearby schools because they are nearby! It is as simple as that. they are all fine, none are excellent. All are oversubscribed.

I ask myself "why do I really want DD to go to x school" the answer is "because it's bloody a 5 min walk over there and the neighbours kids go there and it's perfectly OK in terms of standards".

Absolutely Heathen: but it's not the children who are motivated, it's the parents. That's what makes a faith school great, usually. The parents put in masses of effort. So if other parents want the same level of education, it's not rocket science: that's what they should do.