Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find the whole Broken Britain thing a load of horse crap?

325 replies

slightlystressed · 24/01/2010 11:10

It's really irratating me now, Britain has never been "fixed".

I know Mr Smuggness will be our next PM, and I've been trying to avoid him, but he's frikin' EVERYWHERE! Using the Edlington case to highlight his theory was pretty poor aswell.

God, Im going to unplug the TV for a few days after the Election, his smuggness just might make me explode!

OP posts:
mii · 24/01/2010 11:13

I think there are elements of it that are v v broken

But I wouldn't expect DCam to have any bloody idea where to start fixing them

violethill · 24/01/2010 11:13

Yeap of course it's a load of horse crap... but it's not just Cameron is it - all the political parties use this method after high profile cases shortly before a General Election.

cory · 24/01/2010 11:15

I am old enough to remember the Thatcher and Major years. And they do not strike me as some golden age of social cohesion, nor was that how they struck most people at the time.

giddykipper · 24/01/2010 11:16

Completely agree.

Re Edlington, how is it any different than the Bulger case which happened under a Tory government?

onebatmother · 24/01/2010 11:17

precisely what Cory said.

ArcticFox · 24/01/2010 11:22

I think the UK has big social issues which are shared by a number of other developed countries in that there is very little collective responsibility/ community. People don't care about how people behave outside their immediate social group or if they do care are largely not prepared to intervene.

How to fix it? No idea.

daftpunk · 24/01/2010 11:28

Doubt Dave "Hug a hoodie" Cameron will do much to fix Britain....it was the tories who started destroying the country in the first place, Labour just finished the job off for them.....(in spectacular style I must say)...

We need a complete change, someone in power with a backbone....

sarah293 · 24/01/2010 11:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TheArmadillo · 24/01/2010 11:53

I get so infuriated with the 'life was so much better in the olden days', 'britain is such a shit place to live in' crap.

Yes there are some problems which need to be sorted (whatever you think those problems might be) but compared to 'ye olden days' or even other places in the world we are a lot better off. Especially if you are a woman. Things have never been fantastic. There never was a golden age.

Plus David Cameron is an annoying fuckwit.

Though when I read Riven's 'I agree with Mr Smuggery' I first thought the world had broken and she was agreeing with David Cameron.

Then my brain kicked in. But it was a scary place for a minute there.

sarah293 · 24/01/2010 11:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

hbfac · 24/01/2010 12:08

Actually, it makes me very, very ,very angry.

Labour have done SO MUCH to improve all the things that the phrase "broken Britain" refers to.

Britain hasn't ever been fixed (as OP said). Utopia (ha ha) is a goal to move towards, and, frankly, it's content changes over time.

We are closer to "Un-broken Britain" because Labour have invested massively after years of Conservative asset-stripping.

tethersend · 24/01/2010 12:08

Haiti's broken.

We have some problems and issues that not everyone agrees on.

Not the same.

ImSoNotTelling · 24/01/2010 12:16

Totally agree. Certain elements of govt and teh media work together to present a very scary picture of this country.

But all you have to do is look around IRL to see that it is cobblers.

groundhogs · 24/01/2010 12:23

It IS pretty much broken...

IMO, it's not down to any Government to fix this issue, it's down to society itself.

The fact is that no one seems able, or willing to take any responsibility for their own actions, failures etc, it's always someone else's fault. The PC brigade and the HRC have eroded all sense and justice from society. In law, if it feels wrong, it probably is, holds true. Not necessarily true in modern British Society is it?

By allowing the stupid stuff on telly like Jeremy Kyle, the Wright bloke, BB, it normalises and deifies appallingly bad behaviour.

By allowing alcohol to be practically given away by everywhere, 24 hour hours a day, fuels the idiocy of the undisciplined, irresponsible 'it wasn't me' brigade. We need to get the alcohol back into off-licences and pubs ONLY, and return to sensible drinking hours. TBH, we ought to go further to control the excessive drinking, and look at countries like US and Norway I think that control their alcohol sales more than we do... please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Many of us come on here and moan that the school is telling you your precious DC can't have their hair in mo-hawks or gelled or whatever. This is exactly where the society learns that rules don't apply... by watching us parents fight the schools tooth and nail for the right for little Johnny to go to school how he likes, with his hair done just so...

It's not exclusively Government that has destroyed moral Britain, it's the general acceptance of the formally abhorrent behaviour into mainstream society, it's subsequent normalisation, and now the glorification of obscene behaviour.

I'm in my early 40s. When I was growing up people moved heaven and earth to keep their dirty laundry private. Now if you have anything that warrants a slot on the JK show, you sell the story to the papers, set up a FB page, write a book and go on an interview tour... Where IS the shame?

This country needs to pull itself up on a short choke chain and get itself back into a more disciplined environment. We literally can't expect MPs to do it, they are too busy picking out the farrow and ball colour for the en-suite to their Duck House. We need to sort ourselves out and then, when we are ready, sort out the MPs. TBH, I'm tempted to suggest that we toss the entire system of both houses, and flush them all. I'd prefer to reduce numbers to more along the lines of the US system.

The change must come from us. To begin with, we need to stop trying to buck the rules all the time, only when it really matters. Little Johnny won't suffer lasting damage if he can't gel his hair, wear a godforsaken earring or whatever.

We need to support teachers in their attempts to stream and discipline our DC.

We need to really look at the effect of horror films and violent computer games on young minds. Repeated exposure to violence means that we accept it. We have to closely supervise and limit what our DC are exposed to. If it's a cert18, they have to wait till they are over 18 to play it. No debate.

If our DC are conditioned to accept extreme violence before they have grown a bloody beard, it holds dire consequences for society if and when they get their hands on drink and allow their hormones to get the better of them.

I know it means that we as parents are not 'Cool', but I'd rather be an uncool mum of an 18yo young man, than a cool mum of a 18yo Defendant, or worse, Deceased.

ImSoNotTelling · 24/01/2010 12:32

This is all from the papers though. Most people in society are not appearing of jeremy kyle and discussing having sex with their sisters or whatever. the reason that people watch it it that it is a freak show. Most people are not like that.

When I look around the community I live in I see many churchgoers, neighbours who while reserved would drop everything to help each other, the high street is not crammed with drunk people... It's all much the same as it was here when I was growing up. People haven't changed.

Some areas have huge problems, yes, that is due to poverty in the main. And it's always been like that as well. The vast majority of britain is rather middle class, with people working, looking after their families, behaving reasonably politely to each other and looking out for each other.

I was mugged a few years back, in quite a nasty way. The bloke had been doing it lots to vulnerable women and OAPs and they caught him when he did a mugging and a youth followed him on his bicycle and took the number of the car he got into. It was like something out of the red hand gang. That is how most people are, no matter what the papers say.

The only exceptions to this are, the London Underground in rush hour, and certain car drivers That is where you will observe selfish nasty "me me me" behaviour. And that's about it!

ImSoNotTelling · 24/01/2010 12:35

"The vast majority of britain is rather middle class, with people working, looking after their families, behaving reasonably politely to each other and looking out for each other."

That came out a bit wrong. What I was trying to say that the vast majority of people are law abiding and decent. While the papers present us with an idea that the whole country is made up of criminal types and undesirables - well certain newspapers anyway.

MrsVidic · 24/01/2010 12:36

I don't really understand why everyone judges the tories on the past- aren't they meant to have changed?

Would it not be good to have a change of government? Tories seem to be saying some good things- This will be my first vote so I am genuinely interested

ImSoNotTelling · 24/01/2010 12:37

I would love a change of Govt.

VOTE LIB DEM

There you go

violethill · 24/01/2010 12:38

Don't entirely agree with everything there, but totally agree about the whole 'Jeremy Kyle' syndrome - people being encouraged to play out their dysfunctional issues in the public arena, and getting aclaim for it. Makes me sick when I see the latest book by Kerry Katona/Jordan on the bookshelves, or indeed Ok magazine. Trouble is, people watch these shows and buy this shit which perpetuates it.

CheeryCherry · 24/01/2010 12:50

OP I agree, compare our country to most others, we are doing alright. Our biggest downfall is the media, they are the ones who hype everyone up into thinking our country is the pits.
Tethersend I agree, Haiti is broken - for most folk in the UK they have a good standard of living. Most countries have their problems, poverty, homelessness...we are no different.
I dread a Tory government, still seething to the mess they made when I was a child.

sarah293 · 24/01/2010 12:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

tethersend · 24/01/2010 12:58

groundhogs, the rules of society are not set in stone. They are decided on by the people who form the society- the norms and values differ wildly from society to society, and also change through time. If people had adhered to 'the rules' unquestioningly in, say 1950s America, there would have been no civil rights movement. In South Africa, apartheid would still be in existence.

"When I was growing up people moved heaven and earth to keep their dirty laundry private"

This was not always a good thing- teenage pregnancies often resulted in forced adoptions and backstreet abortions. Sexual abuse went largely unreported, and victims rarely believed if they spoke up. Domestic abuse was part and parcel of married life for many women.

The Jeremy Kyle show seems a small price to pay for what we have gained by eschewing these values somewhat.

tethersend · 24/01/2010 12:59

x-post, Riven

sarah293 · 24/01/2010 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

UnquietDad · 24/01/2010 13:00

It's a nice soundbite and an alliterative phrase which gets you noticed in the media. I'm sure Tony Blair first used it after the James Bulger case, when he was Shadow Home Secretary. "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", he said they were going to be, and that was 17 years ago.

I get fed up with all the "things were so much better in the old days" too. I have argued endlessly with my mother that access to information about crime stats and so on was not as readily available in the 1950s, and that an awful lot of the nasty stuff we now know about (domestic violence in particular) would, back then, have been put up with/ not discussed.

BUT...

Friends who are teachers, especially (and DW who is also a teacher) all report that they have noticed a subtle sea-change in the past couple of decades. There is a growing awareness of "rights", and a commensurate diminishing of a sense of responsibility. Nobody seems to think anything is their fault any more. And kids openly tell teachers to fuck off - a small minority, for sure, but they are NOT automatically excluded any more. In my school there would have ABSOLUTE ZERO TOLERANCE of this kind of behaviour. You swear at a teacher, you are OUT, and no sob-story about your "difficult home circumstances" will cut any ice. Perhaps we need a little more of that.