To yell at ds, 17?

[TrickyTeenagersMum]

Hello, sorry this is a bit of a long one
Ds is 17 and I've posted on here before about him. We've had a turbulent 18 months with him in trouble at school, home and just about everywhere. He keeps assuring us that he's changing his ways but last night he went to his hockey practice and his big sister saw him having a fag on the sidelines before play even started. Then he didn't come home until 11.30 pm (this for a kid who is in the middle of AS retakes, A level coursework and should be taking his A levels this summer if he's not kicked out of school by then). We know he smokes dope (though not openly, he is banned from smoking of any sort at home). He has gone from bright eyed sporty kid to shambling skinny, spotty mess, underweight (6 ft and 10.5 stone).
Anyway, last night after his "night out" and before we'd been told about the cigarette incident, he was polishing his halo, charming at dinner, helped younger siblings with homework and bedtime and was (thinking back on it) being a bit of a creep! Obviously he cares enough to try and be good when he knows he might get in trouble. Big sis then told us about the smoking and that his 11.30 stay-out wasn't for a team evening in the clubhouse as he'd said but a smoking sesh with his pals.
I yelled at him this morning along the lines of "I don't like your lifestyle and I don't want to support you while you're making these choices".
But actually, I feel he has called our bluff - we are desperate to keep the peace so that he stays at school and at least takes (even if he does fail) his A levels. We know he smokes fags and dope and seem pretty well powerless to do anything about it.
We have almost no sanctions as he earns his own money and gets lifts everywhere. We have grounded him in the past but at nearly 18 that seems absurd.
Is it better just to turn a blind eye to all this crapness and let him make his own mistakes? Am dreading June when he finishes school and will presumably go totally off the rails - he was bad enough last summer holidays. He doesn't want to go to university, would you start charging him rent/turf him out, or just let him get it out of his system? We have two younger dcs who obviously I don't want exposed to the teen drugs lifestyle.

Don't give him any money, ban him from smoking in the house or anywhere the little ones can see and tell him that he needs to think about what he is doing as he isn't make the best of choices at the moment.

Mine are all still at primary school so I realise I have no idea about teenagers.

Fab, the thing is, we don't give him any money and we have banned him from smoking in the house - what else can we do?! He was lovely when at primary school - this is all so weirdly unexpected, as he didn't really start acting up until he was 16 (late starter?!)

It is hard - I think you're right that at this stage, muddling along until he's got through his A Levels should be the main focus. Obviously you need to keep doing what you're doing - no smoking at home, making it clear you disapprove etc - but ultimately the only thing that will change him is maturity, which will come in time.

My DS1 pratted about and pushed his luck in A Level year - to the extent that he had to retake a load of modules which was something of a shock to his system. He sorted himself out the following year. So don't despair .

Have you asked him why he smokes?

I have no teenagers either, so maybe useless, you decide

I would not throw him out or start charging him rent.

He's still at school, he's got a hobby, he is bothered enough to care about polishing his halo.

Smoking (fags and pot) at 17 isn't really that bad, is it? I mean, of course you need to tell him it's really bad and make sure he knows that he shouldn't be doing it. But it's not actually that surprising for a kid of that age to be doing that kind of stuff.

He doesn't sound off the rails to me, just a teenager who thinks hanging around with his mates and being "cool" is more fun that studying. Which doesn't make him unusual, really.

How does he do socially? Does he have lots of friends?

Maybe he won't do well in his A-levels if he's not studying, but that will be its own lesson for him. He doesn't want to go to college, but what does he want to do?

You're right, he's setting himself up for a very hard year next year when his friends all go off to Uni and all the new things that happen after school. What plans does he have at the moment for next year?

God he sounds exactly like me at that age, I was probably worse though...

I have turned out fine!

To me it sounds like pretty standard teenage behavior but I know that others would not agree.

Have you tried calmly talking to him about things? Pointing out that smoking is v addictive and once you're hooked it's a bugger to kick, that marijuana can be harmless but can be devastating and it's hard to tell which way it will go for any individual.

That his chance at a level etc is now, and if he cocks it up it'll spoil his future chances and if he wants to do them again later it will be a huge PITA?

Sorry I only have toddlers too. When I was being a deradful teenager my parents let me get on with it, so I'm seeing it from the child POV rather than the parent IYSWIM.

The one thing mt parents didn't do was bail me out / give me lifts etc I had to look after myself.

I might ask him to give up his job now. In fact, I might offer to give him a reasonable allowance (but less than he's earning) so that he can give up work and concentrate on studying.

He's basically half way through the school year, in his final year of school. It's a pretty good time to sit down and have a big adult chat about his plans, what you can contribute, and what you expect/hope of him.

I have no idea if this would work with him, or backfire. But working in an exam year is not ideal, if it can be avoided IMO. Having less money and more time is good for people with revision to do.

I dont have teenagers so feel free to tell me to bugger off BUT he helped the lo's with their homework and at bedtime and you're describing this as "creepy".

I would describe it as him feeling guilty and trying to make it up to you. Maybe you are so exasperated with his other behaviour that you aren't able to "see" the good bits.

Agree with others that you need to focus on trying to get him through his exams as a priority so chucking him out wont help.

Peer pressure is overwhelming in your teens so if his mates are all smoking he will want to feel one of the gang. He is still maturing/full off hormones at the moment and hopefully things will improve with time.

Have you sat down and discussed the dope smoking with him and how worried you are that if he is focusing on this rather than his exams, he is making things more difficult for himself.

Fwiw, alot of my comrades at school/uni were "puffers" and now have very successful careers so all is not lost.

She can't ask or tell him to give his job up! That would be an awful thing to do to him. Holding a job down and earning your own money is a good, responsible and positive thing. If he doesn't know what he wants to do long term and doesn't want to go to uni it will be a positive boon, especially in this climate, if he is already working. It may lead to other things and work experience is always a bonus.

Depending on his personality, it might well also backfire spectacularly in other ways.

Of course she can ask him if she thinks it might help.

Teenagers who are still at school working is not an unalloyed good. It can have a massive impact on the amount of work that goes into preparing for exams.

Whether it would work with this kid, I don't know. But presuming this is a job of the calibre that is normally given to teenagers, I would think that getting decent exam results could be a lot more important than another few months of "experience".

Either way, it's just a suggestion and it's a bit silly to say that she "can't" do it.

why wait until he fails his a levels? explain that you are not happy with his life style and it is about time he got a job and paid his way - rent off him at about 50% of his wages - this is life

Let him cook clean etc for himself as well - no washing etc

He is doing what he wants - fine adults can take care of themselves

If he isn't going to uni them why stay at school to fail?

I'd be buggered if I'd give him my hard earned cash to buy dope with skidoodle.

I'd be telling him that if he ever came into my house stoned, no matter what his age, he would be leaving with his clothing in black binliners the next morning, if not before. No way would I have this around my younger DC if I were the OP.

For me it would be very, very simple. You have 4 weeks to shape up, ditch the dope and the assholes amongst your friends and show me that you are studying as you should and have a plan of action for when you leave school. Otherwise, you're out.

I thought you meant she was to tell him to pack his job in. Which would not be a good idea IMO.

Gosh ivy I am very lucky you weren't my mum! You sound pretty harsh!

I'm with ImSoNotTelling. I agree with everything she has said about him having a job. What Tricky doesn't want is a teen with more time on his hands for more smoking sessions with his mates combined with no money. Just because he would have more time doesn't mean he'd spend it studying.
Him having a job at all is great as they are not easy to come by and as ISNT says could lead to other things. It doesn't look bad on a CV too. Plus at 17 it's good that he's getting a feel for supporting himself.

Tricky he does sound like a normal teen. It's good that he cares enough to 'creep'.

Gosh you too vallhala.

Were none of you ever teenagers? i think he sounds completely normal.

Erm, many years ago, yes, ISNT. And had I acted like the OPs son my mother would have done exactly as I would... after she'd given me a bloody good hiding.

Fact is, because I knew this, I wouldn't have dared disrespect her or behave as the OPs son is.

Actually I have a 16 year old DS and i wouldn't be at all happy. I wouldn't accept late nights and pissing about when he is supposed to be studying.
I was a 16 year old too and I still think that accepting crap behaviour because they are teengaers is just a cop out.

I think that being sneery about the things he did to help isn't good. If he was trying at dinner and bedtime then accept that for what it is and don't be so negative about it - it shows he wants things at home to be nice.

If it were me I would sit down and talk to him about what he wants, what results he expects and if he honestly thinks he will get them given his late nights and pissing about.
I would explain that living at home requires respectingthe rules and then agree with him what they are. Agree a home time, tell him you want him to cut out the smoking and weed both for his health and for the examples to his siblings.
But you have to accept that he will stretch boundaries and it is foolish to try and control his choices outside that which is reasonable for someone living under your roof.

See what he says. Sometimes a converstaion where you explain why you are trying to set boundaries rather than just shouting, gets better results.
And let him talk about it, what he wants to do , where he wants to end up - and ask him how you can help him if he can help you make home life more pleasant for all of you.

Surely if he has less money, he will have less pot?

I just think full-time school, plus part time job, is a lot when you're trying to study for exams.

Either way, I think it's worth having the conversation about this plans and what he wants. "I don't want to go to Uni" is all very well, but he needs to think about what he DOES want.

ISNT yes, he sounds completely normal to me too.

Vallhala it depends on the family though. If my parents had taken a hard line I would have moved out, then by necessity had to pack in school, not got my 4 a levels or my degree, and would have had an althogether different life, one in which I would not enjoy a close relationship with my parents and they would not see their grandchildren (if I had still gone on to have any).

What works for one person will not work for another and only the OP knows what sort of person her son is.

ISNT, that message - having to pack in school, not get the qualifications for a successful and satisfying life, screwing up family relationships etc - would be explained as the possible consequences of refusing to comply with my hard line, as would the fact that the only loser is the beligerent teenager. As I said, no way would I have my teenagers come into my house stoned or anywhere near any younger siblings.

The child isn't the only loser though.

Surely the parents lose too, in that situation.

"having to pack in school, not get the qualifications for a successful and satisfying life, screwing up family relationships etc - would be explained as the possible consequences of refusing to comply with my hard line, as would the fact that the only loser is the beligerent teenager"

I think that's a pretty unrealistic message for a 17 year old to fully comprehend.

I also don't think the only loser in a situation where your child moves out of your home, fucks up their life, and you never get to see them, is the child.

pagwatch well you have the proper credential of your own teenager, so I'm certainly not going to disagree with you
"I was a 16 year old too and I still think that accepting crap behaviour because they are teengaers is just a cop out."

I agree. But I don't think from the OP's description that this kid is anywhere near deserving to be thrown out on the street to make his own way.

Hi everyone,
Some really interesting responses, I'll let you know how it goes! I think "shape up or get out" approach just isn't on the cards - dh won't stand for it and ds just really would end up in the gutter somewhere. He may as well stay at school and try to pass something and we'll think again in the summer. He is basically v nice person, just very lacking in self-discpline and unable to resist peer pressure.
We have had loads - loads - of sit-down talks, saying all that sensible stuff. It just doesn't seem to be getting through to him.
Ds is one of six and we just don't do pocket money - they have got to have p/t jobs, and that's the end of it. His older sibs all managed to work a few hours a week, do their school work and have a good time. He is already - I am convinced - spending his school lunch money on fags and pot, I absolutely won't fund any more of it...Besides the p/t job is teaching him a few life skills - I hope - and who knows maybe they will have him there full time next year.
Oh and as for next year - well! when asked he said: "I dunno, but I definitely want to have a gap year". Our older kids all lived at home rent free, worked and went off on great holidays in their gap years. But that was something we supported because they'd got their A levels and were off to uni. Not sure I feel the same about ds as he has been having mor43e or less a "gap life" already throughout sixth form...but we'll see.
Also - last time we challenged him about schoolwork he (eventually) burst into tears and said he "felt like killing himself" becuae he was so far behind and in so much trouble with teachers. So we all chipped in with help and revision timetables, big sis came round to help with revision etc etc. But then the next day he was cheerfully vegging out in front of telly and off with his mates again, like nothing had ever happened. I don't know, I really don't....

some youngsters (mainly boys in my experience) just take a while to get the hang of the transition to adulthood.

i'd be more sympathetic and more appreciative of when he does make an effort if i were you.

praise is just as important at that age as when he was a toddler.

he's holding down a job, going to hockey practise and making at least half an effort to pass his a-levels, that's not too bad i'd say. obviously you want more effort on the a-levels but i do think you should appreciate what he is doing.

you need to have an adult conversation with him about what he's going to do next year if not uni and what he needs to achieve to get there. you may find that deep down he's scared shitless of failure and what he's going to do with his life!

{my brother refused to go to school after the age of 16, smoked tons of dope and couldn't hold down a job - he sorted himself out before he turned 20 and is a lovely young man now with a good job as a chef, he just hated school}