To yell at ds, 17?

[TrickyTeenagersMum]

Hello, sorry this is a bit of a long one
Ds is 17 and I've posted on here before about him. We've had a turbulent 18 months with him in trouble at school, home and just about everywhere. He keeps assuring us that he's changing his ways but last night he went to his hockey practice and his big sister saw him having a fag on the sidelines before play even started. Then he didn't come home until 11.30 pm (this for a kid who is in the middle of AS retakes, A level coursework and should be taking his A levels this summer if he's not kicked out of school by then). We know he smokes dope (though not openly, he is banned from smoking of any sort at home). He has gone from bright eyed sporty kid to shambling skinny, spotty mess, underweight (6 ft and 10.5 stone).
Anyway, last night after his "night out" and before we'd been told about the cigarette incident, he was polishing his halo, charming at dinner, helped younger siblings with homework and bedtime and was (thinking back on it) being a bit of a creep! Obviously he cares enough to try and be good when he knows he might get in trouble. Big sis then told us about the smoking and that his 11.30 stay-out wasn't for a team evening in the clubhouse as he'd said but a smoking sesh with his pals.
I yelled at him this morning along the lines of "I don't like your lifestyle and I don't want to support you while you're making these choices".
But actually, I feel he has called our bluff - we are desperate to keep the peace so that he stays at school and at least takes (even if he does fail) his A levels. We know he smokes fags and dope and seem pretty well powerless to do anything about it.
We have almost no sanctions as he earns his own money and gets lifts everywhere. We have grounded him in the past but at nearly 18 that seems absurd.
Is it better just to turn a blind eye to all this crapness and let him make his own mistakes? Am dreading June when he finishes school and will presumably go totally off the rails - he was bad enough last summer holidays. He doesn't want to go to university, would you start charging him rent/turf him out, or just let him get it out of his system? We have two younger dcs who obviously I don't want exposed to the teen drugs lifestyle.

How is his relationship with his 'Big Sis'?..If he feels that she is there to grass him up and score points all the time i dont think it will be helping. I would tell her that her brother is 17 and maybe needs a sister rather than a 3rd parent?

p.s. i don't have teenagers of my own, i work with them.

I don't thinl you need to accept crap behaviour, you need to keep trying to sort it out.

I don't think it is unreasonable to remember that pushing boundaries in a big way, "rebelling" and all of that sort of stuff is a normal developmenantal phase for teenagers. As much as tantrums are for toddlers. It doens't happen with all of them, but if it does, it is normal, and you cope with it as best you can.

oh, and also, as much as i wouldn't approve of smoking i also wouldn't turn it into a battleground, he's old enough to decide if he wants to smoke and he'll most probably grow out of it.

LOL @ a gap year between not studying and not studying

cheeky fecker

Have you told him that you won't be subsidising any kind of gap year for him and that if he's not going to college he'll need to get a job and pay rent?

I don't think it would be at all unfair to be clear on what you will be expecting of him once he's finished at school. It might help for there to be some kind of certainty for how things will be after his exams.

It's important that he's a very nice person. That will stand him in good stead throughout his life, whatever turn it takes.

Gap year is fair enough if it's on the same basis as his siblings.

ie he has to work to pay for it

Soccer mum, you may be right, it probably does feel like the whole family is on his case right now. Maybe big sis should ease off, though I think he appreciated the revision help.
He may well be really worrying about the future - and you're right, it will be v tough for him when everyone goes off to uni and he's left behind. But mostly it seems that he cannot see past next Saturday night and whatever's happening with his mates.
I can only hope that once he is out of school he will be happier and find something he can focus on. Can't think what, mind, though would be great to have a chef in the family!
Valhalla, this is our 4th teen to go through the tricky years and I hear what you say but ultimatums and showdowns are I think to be avoided. We're trying to raise an adult here, not bully a kid into submission. Don't mean to sound harsh but there has got to be some mutual respect between him and us, you can't just hitler around the place - tempting though it is because I do hate what he is doing. I might take your line if ds was on heroin and dealing from the house - but fags n pot, maddeening though it is, isn't enough to make us throw him out. I think would just make a baddish situation really terrible if we did.

"having to pack in school, not get the qualifications for a successful and satisfying life, screwing up family relationships etc - would be explained as the possible consequences of refusing to comply with my hard line, as would the fact that the only loser is the beligerent teenager"

I think that's a pretty unrealistic message for a 17 year old to fully comprehend." -QUOTE skidoodle

Disagree, my own two teenagers are fully able to comprehend it.

However, that would be my way of doing it, but as Tricky says, not hers, not least as her husband wouldn't stand for that approach.

It's times like this that I realise just how good it is to be a lone parent.

skidoodle. I like your gap year line, can I quote you in our next row parental chat? I have said a couple of times that if he's not going to uni or college then he should pay rent. And that a gap year was a big ask given what the past two years have been like. He looked absolutely astonished at that concept - he really did think it was a given. Actually if he did manage to get a job, save up and do something interesting, I'd be really pleased. And amazed.

Sounds like he has difficulties juggling 'teenage hedonism'and his studies.Some can, and some just can't handle all the freedom that the A level years entail.

I'd be drawing his attention to the situations vacant column and tell him to start looking for a full time job, since he's not doing anything much to gain a place at university. That might shock him into action. Or maybe he isn't cut out for that sort of career path?

Point respected Tricky. I'm a self-confessed dictator in my own house, very much "my house, my rules, when you're name is on the documents and you pay the bills then you call the shots". Not an approach that suits everyone, but one that works for me.

Good luck with your son, I hope you get all that you both wish for.

Apologies for the warped grammar.

"...you're name"? Eh?

He sounds quite normal. Don't worry too much. Fwiw all my brothers were smoking dope at that age and all didn't do as good at a levels as they should- but they all have good work ethics and have full time jobs, cars and lots of friends. They are responsible people despite being smokers! By all means talk to him about the smoking and his priorities but i wouldn't tell him to quit his job. A work ethic is an important attribute to have and even if he's not putting enough energy into school at least it's not all going on mates and getting stoned.

Imsonottelling, I don't find it harsh standing on your own two feet, I have a friend and at 44 her mum still does her ironing and washing - tbh if this is what you want I am glad I am not your mum!!

Yes- you can't knock the lad's work ethic that's for sure.

Are you sure he doesn't want to leave college and enter the job market?

Thanks Valhalla, and everyone! I do feel a bit better now. Maybe our older ones were just surprisingly good, - they did/do drink too much but somehow it didn't freak us out so much as dope. Valhalla, what age are your kids - i do wish sometimes I could take your line but dh won't have it and I suspect that it would cause harm not good in ds's case.
I fear I will doubtless be back for more wise words, this definitely isn't over yet. But is so good to hear of all the kids who went through this and came out the other side.

He may have a problem with the fact that the older siblings have been successful - have all done the straightforward A Levels/Gap Year/Uni thing. It might be that he feels his route over the next few years is already cast in stone, that there are too many assumptions that that's what he'll do and he's fighting it.

I really don't think his behaviour is so abnormal - if, as you say, he's a nice guy then it will all come good - you just need to find the right balance between zero tolerance for the really shite stuff, and love and support for what is actually a really difficult stage in life.

skidoodle well he is still 16 so not out ofthe woods yet ...

I wouldn't advocate chucking him outeither tbh.
But I think there is a line to be drawn between letting him do what he wants because he is old enough and throwing him out.

None of us now can be told what to do. We comply with the needs of other out of love and respect and compromise.
I think a relationship has to have deteriorated quick far if negotiation, conversation and a reserve of mutaual affection and respect can not be called upon.

I am pretty tough with my DS but even in our harshest conversations he absoloutely knows that I love him and have his best interests at the forfront of my decision making.

I think we can get too finger waggey and get into a power struggle really really quickly when faced with a teenager wearing a face that just makes you want to slap them

It is hard but I think in those conversations it is important to remind our children WHY we are having the conversation as in
" you are a bright, considerate and fantastic young man and I want to help you get the most from these years so that you move into a job you love and a life that makes you happy and fulfilled. How do we work together to get there.. because this is making us both unhappy"

...oops
"to have deteriorate quite far.."

PLus yhe uni thing isn;t the be all and end all - I don;t understand this idea that if he's not going to university then might as well leave school now. I think that A-Levels are better than leaving school with just GCSEs.

Also not everyone is the university academic type - I know so many people who wish they had left school after A-Levels rather than wasting years (and these days running up ££ of debt) doing a course just for the sake of it really.

I certainly didn't know exactly what I wnated to do at 17 - I think people wo do are lucky. I suspect that your son will find his own way - once his a-levels are out of the way you will all know where you are and be able to look ahead. Of course he may want to doss around and not do anything - then will be the time to put the hard word on him

ivykaty I do think that forcing a 17 year old out of school when they are coming up for a-levels on the presumption that they are going to fail is harsh, yes.

Why is he doing A levels? Is he doing them because its just something everyone does in your family and its kind of expected or is he doing them with an end goal. ie he has an interest in a particular field?

I didn't do a levels, it really wasn't me. I was expected to do them, I refused and was labelled a drop out but I have a degree, am doing a second one and have a well paid professional job.
I left school at 16 and did an apprenticeship before doing my degree later on with the open uni.

I'm just wondering if he is more suited to a vocational education rather than an academic one? Might be worth exploring?

Look out for possible job/career avenues that might interest him since he doesn't want to go to uni.
A friend of mine at uni had a younger brother 'go off the rails' like yours (I don't think he is really OFF the rails!) and his mum was really worried. Anyway during that summer holiday following finishing school he found a job in a casino! They gave good training and paid well, and then after a couple of years he went and trained to be a snowboarding instructor. All very 'cool', and respectable positions.

You never ever force - you give a choice, get on and do your studies or get out and get a job.

Ops ds has failed the as level and retaking them - but not bothering to study, instead going to mates places and smoking pot/skunk etc. Fine his life but if the a levels are a pretence - then why actually keep up the pretence?

If someone wants to really study then fine I would financaly support that, but not if they are taking the preverbal continually without ever bothering to study.

That is not what your earlier post said ivykaty.

No it is not what I sai in my previous post - I wanted to explain where I come on this, op's son is a pain doesn't want to study and that is why I would say that to him, if he is really serious about a levels and study he will get on with it - i he is really hating the school work he will get out.

I also think this is no the first post about this particular teen and if that is the case he didn't want to study last time and was not wanting to do a levels - sorry if that is not the case.

We have a real culture in my local schools of trying to get everyone to stay at school and do A levels - if college is suggested it is tutted, consequently there is a high drop out and a year wasted. So probably why I find this odd and I am biased. education for the sake of it is how I see it I hope this explains where I am coming from on this and sorry for my flippant post earlier