to be fuming that one of our local oversubscribed schools was half empty when I looked around it this morning?

[thedollyridesout]

When I challenged the Head about the number of empty rooms vs pupil admission number he said that the school number was set at the maximum capacity of the school hall to enable the whole school to meet together.

AIBU in thinking that that is a rubbish reason?

This school has fantastic facilities and I am sure it could easily accommodate more pupils.

I was wondering that domesticextremist. When you appeal, do you automatically get a place if you win your appeal regardless of your place on the waiting list?

My ds was refused a place because the school were saying they were oversubscribed, so i looked at things like

1. How many appeals were successful the previous year, ie 3, so 3 extra pupils were admitted on top of the set number and the school coped.

1. What the years intake is and split this between how many form classes, (this is always under 30) so would not have a negative impact on teaching.

etc, etc, etc

Ds1 just started school and there are 35 per class (one class entry). There is a teacher and a teaching assistant for each class.

The other school nearby only has 30 single class entry each year, but only one teacher per class, no teaching assistant.

When I asked the heads why this was, I was told 30 is the upper limit, more than that and they need a teaching assistant.

So I went for the school with 2 adults per 35 children rather than 1 adult for 30.

You might have seen some emtpy classrooms but would there have been enough for an extra class for all the years in the school? Would that be over 200 extra children by the time they've moved up all the years?

Would the canteen/playground/toilets etc be able to cope with the extra numbers?

Entry isn't just based on numbers of class rooms.

Have you been refused a place at the school? If so why were you looking round it? Or if you haven't applied yet, then wait and see who gets in, unless you live too far away and know it, and want them to add an extra class to the possible detriment of other schools nearby.

In fact thats an idea, lets just make all the popular schools into 10 class entry...

They are at 31 so that can't be true. Anyway I thought it was just a recommendation rather than a law (with the exception of infants).

What were you doing looking round this school anyway - havent you just moved from private (confused) or is it the next stage on iyswim.

In a middle school there would be some classrooms with no children in I would expect.

The dolly, they would have a standard admission number which is always lower than 30, the fact they are at 31 works in your favour as this show that they regularly take in more children than the admission number.

As i said im happy to list all the grounds i appealed on and you can take from it what you want.

The number of children a school admits depends on the square metreage of 'class bases'.There is a definition of what counts as a class base, for example a dining hall and library are counted in , but toilets and corridors are not.
What happens often though is a school will have new building work done and not increase its admission limit.
This is one of teh very sound grounds for appeal and the admissions authority legally have to give you that information if you ask for it.

Are you suggesting they should be 5 form entry? Or that they should have more children per class?

Your tally would take into account total number of teachers and total number of children, rather than the number of children in a class at any one time IYSWIM.

You can only appeal on set grounds though I think? You 'd have to do some research on whether any of the grounds for appeal apply to you.

If your child is already of the age to go to that school, then I doubt you could win an appeal based on 'you should have an extra class entry' as that sort of numbers stuff is decided by the lea and school well before the new class would be started at reception age, say if there's recently been a baby boom.

Am very interested, is your child of school age already? Is one of the posters right that you have come out of private school and is that why you are so keen to get her in another school where the parents all applied ages ago?

KS2 can have up to 35 children in a class I think.

You do seem to have been trying to decide which school to send your DC to for a while. I hope you find somewhere suitable soon.

Flibberty, you would appeal on whatever grounds you were refused entry.

So if you were refused on not enough space and places limited by distance... and you live further than the last child to be allocated a place... then how would an appeal work?

In our school a child got in on appeal but numbers didn't go up, they say there are always one or more spaces come available between March and September, so they fill them with children next on the list or winning an appeal.

They also have to take children in care who are near the school. So that can push the figures up.

Just interested in what the op would use for grounds for appeal, and I did ask earlier if shes applying, or if she has been refused a place, but had no answer. So I'm a bit in the dark.

Dolly, is this the catholic school that you were concerned about potential damage to your daughter?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/888551-to-think-that-there-will-be-no -lasting-damage-if
If so I wouldn't be in such a hurry to appeal, especialy if you already have issues with it.

Flibberty, you would have to prove that school did not apply its admissions criteria correctly or that the problems faced by the child in going to another school outweigh the trouble for the school in admitting the child.

The LEA is unlikely to increase the numbers at a school - even if it's oversubscribed, and even if the premises would allow - if there are places at other neighbouring schools.

And of course, it could be that the school and the county, who set the numbers for each school, have a better idea than you of what constitutes "full."

So just because you decided that it looked a bit empty, does not mean they've got it wrong. And why should they "squeeze another one in," by which I suppose you mean just your child, when that would squeeze the opportunity and attention that the existing pupils already enjoy.

Go somewhere else.

For those of you that are interested DD is now in our catchment primary school. In September she will transfer to middle school. Our catchment middle school which we live 8 miles from is regularly oversubscribed. The next two closest schools are faith schools and are both regularly subscribed. One is RC and this one is not. HTH.

Yes please claw, if you wouldn't mind.

Im baffled, it looked it a bit empty, but they have 31 children in a class.

Cant help feeling this is a wind up.

Pixie - where should my DD go to school?

It is everyones choice whether or not to appeal. If others decide not to, that is up to them.

Whats wrong with the nearest one then? Where do most people from her primary go to?