My child is afraid of dogs - any tips?

[longforasnooze]

Hi, my nearly 4 year old has been afraid of dogs for as long as I can remember, though he has never had a bad experience, and certainly we are not fearful so no nervousness from me. He would cross the road when he saw one coming, leap into my arms if one got close and make a lot of fuss. Any kind or size of dog, doesn't matter, he panics. I know fear is irrational but....no reasoning will placate him.
My partner wanted a dog for his birthday and has always wanted one and we felt my son was now old enough to cope, and we decided to get a puppy so it would be totally unthreatening. We reasoned that once the unknown element was gone he would warm to it and think it was fun.
We are now 4 days into him being at home, he is a gentle and quiet little dog and very curious about the children. The baby doesn't care, but there is no improvement in my 4 year old, who will barely be in the same room as it, climbs up to the highest point from it if he is, and is generally being panicky and squealy. We have confined it to the kitchen so he feels safe in 'his' spaces, offered endless rewards for stroking it, or being friendly, struggling to find behaviour towards it we can praise, reasoned on all logical fronts, watched Scooby Doo!!
Does anyone have any experience of helping their child through their fear of dogs so they can become friends. I would hate the dog to get older, see his fear and then think he was the boss. Any helpful hints greatly appreciated.

[mathanxiety]

I was about the child offering the puppy his toy, ImSoNotTelling. This wasn't a case of cheerful friendship overtures -- seemed to me more a case of the DS knowing he's the lowest rung on the ladder and making a peace offering to the creature who is ahead of him.

[longforasnooze]

I really don't see why we can't agree to disagree without it constantly coming back to a couple of people wanting to beat me with a stick.

This is a discussion forum, at the start people offered their opinions and advice, and a lot of it is very useful. I have read and considered everyone's opinions and taken them on board. I do feel that others are not responding in kind and seem hell bent on raking over the same ground 'quoting' me which is totally disrespectful to my feelings, yet expecting me to be some kind of saint. I am not adverse to hearing some opinions contrary to my own, but if people continue to attack me then I am entitled to offer some kind of defence, this thread after all has been a little hijacked by those who just want to force their opinion down my throat till I choke.
It is all very well talking about what I should have done differently, but that is the past, I was wanting to work with the present.

Wouldn't it be great if we all could go back and correct every little mistake. Hold up your hand if you are the perfect parent and then those of us who can't will have both to defend ourselves against your volley of stones.

You have heaped criticism upon me and are making all sorts of assumptions but have practically spat when I offer one sarcastic and indirect comment.

I find it utterly bizarre that people are preaching things as gospel. Should we be having this conversation face to face people would not dare to be so rude and be making such ill informed comments, yet because we are the internet it is somehow ok in your faceless veil to pour your damnation down upon me from on high.

Just remember this is one incident in our lives. Spare a thought for how I feel. You backed me into a corner last night and now back to have another poke.

Are you expecting me to say oh you are so right, thank you for your pearls of wisdom the dog is banished, my partner and I will whip each other for weeks and my child and I will go for therapy sessions?

We just disagree and there it is, Doesn't mean I have failed as a parent, the dog is fine, my boy is warming to the dog. End of thread in a way.

[longforasnooze]

I was feeding the baby, hope that's ok IST?!

[claw3]

Mathanxiety, your last comment was a big assumption and a pretty shitty thing to say.

[mathanxiety]

Glad the dog is fine, longforasnooze. God forbid anything should be amiss with the dog.

You have been totally disrespectful of your DS's feelings and yet you are mad at the perceived disrespect for yours after you posted what you had done, and the problems you therefore subsequently experienced, on an internet forum where, free country that it is, many experienced and articulate parents have responded. You can dish it to your DS, but taking it from your peers is not your strong point apparently.

"I find it utterly bizarre that people are preaching things as gospel. Should we be having this conversation face to face people would not dare to be so rude and be making such ill informed comments, yet because we are the internet it is somehow ok in your faceless veil to pour your damnation down upon me from on high." Yikes.

I take exception to 'ill-informed'. Aside from the fact that nobody needs a credential of any kind to post here, it remains that your original post was about a problem that you yourself caused.

YABU.

[midori1999]

mathanxiety, you seem to be missing what I am trying to say, maybe I am not explaining myself very well?

I am not advocating the 'throwing in at the deep end' method and I don't believe this is what the OP has done. She has not locked or shut the child in a room with the dog, there is simply a dog in the house.

It appears the child has gone from being hysterical when the puppy is around, to asking to walk the dog. Now, I suspect that is probably because the parents have made it all seem very exciting to have a puppy, and seem like such a grown up and responsible thing to be able to walk that puppy, which was advice given to he OP by more helpful posters. Yet you seem to assume there are more sinister motives for the child wanting to be with the dog, despite the fact that that is the least likely reason, imo.

We all have different parenting styles, and I have to say, a child being scared for a few minutes, whilst not desirable, really isn't the end of the world, and will certainly not scar it for life. The OP has said nowhere that her DC has been constantly hysterical since the puppy arrived.

[ImSoNotTelling]

longforasnooze I'm not actually deliberately trying to upset anyone, I'm just agreeing with mathanxiety, to support some of the points she has made. Lots of others have supported points that you have made. That is fair enough i think.

However I know that what we are saying may be upsetting and maybe I will leave it now.

I hope that you have had a look around MN now and seen the other topics.

I am afraid I do still think YABU though based on your OP and subesquent posts it is not how I would do things.

[mathanxiety]

I have no doubt that the puppy will 'grow' on the DS, Midori, and he will in time become fond of the dog and maybe become relaxed around dogs in general. Nowhere have I said that the DS would continue to be scared of the puppy. My concern has been the message communicated to the child throughout this episode regarding his feelings and whether he is to be taken seriously or not.

I think the OP's approach has involved something important being sacrificed, namely the child's confidence that his parents will listen to him and are sincerely interested in his feelings. I don't think growing fond of a dog or losing your fear of dogs is enough of a recompense for that sacrifice.

.............

("the dog is fine, my boy is warming to the dog" -- Claw3, I would like to point out to you the order in which the OP reassures everyone, in light of my 'rung on the ladder' comment. Maybe it's not significant, maybe it is.)

[longforasnooze]

math anxiety, my ill informed referred to you being ill informed about my child. You know nothing more than what is posted here. Yet if you look you will see yo have made some utterly unkind remarks and you will not acknowledge that why your opinion may have a place here, those remarks do not.

It may be an open forum, but you are saying I have opened myself up to abuse, which I didn't I asked for tips. As yet you have offered none except to state endlessly that I should not have done it. This is essentially an advice forum for parents, where we can come, discuss, share etc. You have not placed yourself on the line with personal information at all, and I doubt you would be prepared to. Yes a problem I created but again and again you miss the point. I asked for advice not a lecture on what I should have done. My post would have read more like "Should I have got a puppy am I a witch if that was the case"

I am consistent, you claim to be something and demand that I am something you yourself are not.

Please stop quoting me it is utterly patronising. It feels like you have come on here to smugly congratulate yourself on how wonderful you are and how much better yo yourself could have done it not to contribute anything constructive, these conversations are were we were last night and if you'd have looked I think you would have seen we had moved on a little, even digressed.

IST I appreciate your acknowledgement, I do not mind you agreeing, but when people club up together in conversations about me on the board it is basically bullying. Nobody has clubbed together and accused anyone else of bad parenting and failing their child with lifetime affects!

I think it is time to end this thread, our bickering, has turned it into something nobody is now interested in contributing to, and it is therefore not useful to me, just a cause for stress and anxiety.

[Vallhala]

Hope to see you on "Pets", Longfor, where most of us have an entirely different approach to each other and are more 'pro-dog' than on AIBU. It sounds like you are doing just fine, long may it continue.

Val

[longforasnooze]

Man there's a pets! I made it to behaviour, let me see what else I can find!! Thanks to all there was some good stuff in here.

[mathanxiety]

So if someone disagrees with you she is 'ill-informed' because she has access only to the information about your family that you have chosen to share, while those who agree with you, using the same information, are presumably knowledgeable or whatever the opposite of ill-informed is?

Can you account for your use of the following phrases, adjectives and characterisations of my posts, my children and my parenting skills:
Opinion police
Hypocritical
Spouting a psych textbook
'Have you checked you children aren't off bullying people on FB?'
Patronising

Here's my take on them:

Opinion police -- I think after reading through the entire thread this term refers to anyone who disagrees with your approach.

Hypocritical -- don't know where this could have come from as all you know about me on this thread is that I have never opened a psych text, own a cat, and 2 of my DCs are allergic to dogs.

Spouting a psych textbook -- unfair and unkind mischaracterisation of posts as being based on books and not RL experience.

"Have you checked your children aren't off bullying people on FB?" And I am accused of spoiling for a fight?? Questioning my parenting skills and the behaviour of my children based on exactly what?

Patronising -- referring to quoting you. Would you prefer if I made things up?

[Vallhala]

Yep, there's a Pets! Lots of nice people there. Oh, and I'm easy to track down...I'm the one who always speaks up for the dogs!!!

[lucyellensmumagain]

midori, i just would like to pick up on what you said about irrational fears. You are right, to a degree - however, if i were walking in the jungle (as if!) and i encountered a snake, id be pretty bloody scared, because i wouldn't know if it were safe or not. As a child, we have not yet learnt what can harm us or not - so there is a theory of "inherited memory" or instincts - so it is hardwired in us almost, to be afraid of things that slither across the floor with no legs, and things that scuttle accross the floor with eight legs etc etc. Saying that, ive never been scared of snakes and have kept snakes and i was never scared of spiders until my mother made me scared of them due to her fear. Its the same as animals, they are naturally afraid of predetors, they don't learn this fear, its innate - however, there was a program on the tv recently that i missed where a new species was discovered miles from anywhere, some sort of bird i think and they displayed no fear of the humans, give it several generations and this may change? when i say several, probably hundreds. Thats just my musing on that subject anyways.

mathsanxiety Im really sorry but i do think you are being unfair to the OP, you are quoting but you are twisting the meanings.

I dont neccesarily think that getting a dog was the best idea in the world, but it certainly doesn't mean that she doesn't love her son. I do think you have made your point of view very clear and you are in danger of "picking on" the OP.

Longingfor - i think you should call a halt to this thread now - don't get dragged back in because you are getting defensive and its not helping your cause.

And that is all i have to say about that

[UndomesticHousewife]

When we got our dog the girls were 3 and 4, they were very excited we talked about it, what name we would give it, they came with us to pick it up - as soonas we got the puppy home they became terrified!!!

The first morning I was saying to dh that we'd have to get rid of the dog as the dc's wouldn't even get out of bed in case the dog got them.

Dh said give it a few days they'll get used to it, and they did after just a few days.
Our dog is a lab so even as a puppy she was quite big, and she'd jump up at the dd's and they'd scream like they were being murdered. The dog very quickly learned not to jump, and from then on has never jumped up at a child.

Dd2 absolutely loves our dog (as do the others) but she's afraid of all other dogs and even cats. Probably because she's used to our dog and knows she'd never hurt her.

So, although I probably wouldn't have got the dog had they been scared before, it will just take time for your ds to get used to the dog and realise that it won't harm him. The dog is there now and it's early days, and if as you say he is getting better, you may be surprised at teh progress he'll make (I hope!!).

[UndomesticHousewife]

Fwiw, I really wanted a dog which is why we got one. Had the dc's been scared of dogs I probably would have done what i could to get them more used to dogs as I wanted a dog, and I also know how much pleasure they would get out of having a dog in the family.

You haven't done the worst thing in the world, all you've done is get a puppy. And I'm sure your ds will not only get used to your dog but will love the dog and develop a special relationship with the dog. (Try and train the dog well so it does what it's asked because then they really are a joy to have around, no stress of naughty dogs).

I do think that anyone, even a child, has to confront their fears to a certain extent in order to overcome them.
I wouldn't throw someone into the deep end if they were afraid of water, but they do need to step into the water to realise that there's nothing to fear and eventually they will need to tackle the deep end.
To not go into the water ever will only reinforce that water is to be feared.

And I don't think your ds will be scarred by this, unless you constatnly ignore him and laugh at him - he will know he's loved and valued.

[UndomesticHousewife]

Also, yes to him his fear is real, he's too young to know the difference between rational and irrational fear. But as the grown up and the parent (assuming we're of rational mind) we know the difference between those fears and it's up to us to help our children realise the difference and to help them overcome the irrational fear.
There may be something to fear with some dogs, but definitely not all and he is old enough to understand reason if done in the right way.

Having a dog is the ideal way to teach him a respect of animals and how to behave around them so they don't turn into a threat.

It will be fine in the end, you're right to be concerned about how to handle this but done in teh right way, it will be fine

[mathanxiety]

Lucyellensmumagain, I never, ever said the OP didn't love her son. Ever. I said she was insensitive, and there's a big difference. I even said I think things will work out with the puppy. I think it would be lovely for the child and for the puppy to grow together. I have very fond memories of dogs from my childhood, apart from one who gave me a bite (which was my own fault).

'Have you checked your children aren't off bullying people on FB?'

How am I twisting this? These are the OP's exact words. They came completely out of the blue, and I am still gobsmacked, tbh.

The point where the OP started getting defensive was somewhere way back on day one.

[longforasnooze]

Thanks UDH, interesting
MA - apologies for any offence caused, this is clearly way too personal and sensitive a subject for this forum. Everyone gets defensive re their own children/parents. I really think that should be an end to this.
I acknowledge with hind sight, a wonderful thing that it wasn't a great decision, and my sons fears were bigger than I had thought, though now we are possibly making a problem, since he gets so much individual attention for being scared of the dog.
We'll get there, it'll take a while, he's calmed down a lot, and agreed to stroke him wrapped in a towel, it's his unpredictablity he hates.
UDH any top tips on things you did with yor girls? My son now says 'No' to it, and he goes away which he finds reassuring.

[lucyellensmumagain]

Is your dog a boy or a girl? only its a bit weird you calling it and it!

[dreamingofsun]

longs for - is this thread still running! has someone mentioned the pets area? might be best to post there in future as i think you will find lot of dog experts with really good advice, rather than people who are having a bad day and feel like taking it out on someone

[claw3]

This thread is like a dog with a bone.......let it go!

Oh i crack myself up sometimes.

[longforasnooze]

Ha, yes, I was about to let it go, then Someone came on with loads to say! Can you delete them? Perhaps it's best if I do!

[longforasnooze]

Before I dig a hole for my bone.
Tried, not as funny as you Claw....some people just have it.

[claw3]

Longfor, he he, i was thinking more along the lines of group hug, i suppose thats out of the question!